Topic: What the war Cost
started by: GEOKARJO
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 30 2004,12:03 pm
< Click Here Not the other link >What the War cost us
Posted by minnow fan on Mar. 30 2004,1:19 pm
Not nearly as much as your stupid drug war being waged on the citizens of the United States.
Posted by farouk on Mar. 30 2004,5:05 pm
The biggest cost I see is that we could have fixed medicare and social security, but we traded it away for a war that I still have trouble understanding why we are waging it. I'm afraid that it might take as long as Veitnam to end with much the same outcome. If I should be right we will have lost much more than we ever could have imagined. The real trouble with this war is now that we have begun it there is no symple way of ending it. Bush has truely gifted us, and I am mad at myself for having voted him into office. Although he never mention this as his overiding focus, others tried and it appears I was wrong.
Posted by minnow on Mar. 30 2004,5:23 pm
Well, I spoke up and it took a lot of courage and conviction to do so back then. I was shouted down and vehemently called a traitor and unpatriotic. It was as vicious as anything I've ever seen. People weren't hearing reason and truth, just like they're blind to the drug war atrocities. Americans are easily duped or led it seems...
Posted by Truth on Mar. 30 2004,6:02 pm
Yes you are Fletcher.
Posted by jimhanson on Mar. 30 2004,7:45 pm
So many are quick to label this as "Bush's war"--as though Bush WANTED to go to war. This is part of the "New Politics"--don't talk about ideas--rather, PERSONALIZE the issue. Republicans did it to Dukakis in 1988--tied Willie Horton around his neck. They did it to Gore in 2000--tied the spectre of Clinton to him. The Dems have learned well--the rallying cry hasn't been "take back the White House". You've hardly heard a word about control of Congress--much more important than the Presidency. Instead, for the entire primary season, it has been "defeat GEORGE BUSH." Not the President--the person.In each generation, people forget why we engage in wars. In WW I, there was a strong movement for Wilson, whose campaign slogan was "He kept us out of war"--but ultimately, he didn't--he presided over U.S. involvement in WW I. Similarly, Roosevelt initially took an isolationist stance with Europe--but of course, ended up presiding over WW II. Johnson, in his campaign against Goldwater in 1964, said "we will never bomb a sovereign nation" (Vietnam)--only to do so less than a year later as President. By contrast, Eisenhower and Reagan, by being prepared for war, were spared large-scale conflicts.
Two Presidential quotes best typify why we need to be prepared for war--Teddy Rooselvelts
| Quote |
| "Speak softly, and carry a big stick" |
| Quote |
| John F Kennedy, 35th US President QUOTATION: Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty. |
[
Posted by minnow on Mar. 30 2004,11:21 pm
Oh it's Bush's war alright. Nobody else was commander in chief.OK, let me break this down into minnow speak. It's like this.
Some kids smashed out our windshield. We hear the noise and run outside to investigate. We search the neighborhood and when we can't find them, we decide to take it out on someone who defied us 12 years ago. Were mad, we've got to attack somebody!
Now we realized we made a mistake. But instead of doing the honorable thing and admitting a mistake a moving on. We pretend we made the right move.
Posted by hoosier on Mar. 31 2004,8:03 am
Sorry Jim, but this is Bush's war. Bush did want to go to war. You are just blinded by your support for republicans. How much more proof do you need? O, I get it, everyone in Washington is lying, except for Bush, right? Bush was looking for an excuse to attack Iraq as soon as he took office, 9/11 was that excuse.This says it all about Bush and his people. I was watching one of the political round tables on CNN this past weekend. One of the Bush people, a young kid, says about John Kerry,"He wants to spend your tax dollars on things like education and health care, we want to spend it on the military." Those words actually came out of his mouth. He tried to make Kerry out to be a bad guy because he wants to spend billions here in the U.S. instead of spending it to be the world police. The money Bush has spent on drug benifits is a crock, most of it is nothing more than tax payer welfare for the drug companies.
Not that I was a Clinton supporter, but do you all remember when Clinton sent 100 missles into terrorists training headquarters? He was critisized for being to aggresive, and of over reacting to threat. No, sorry all you republican, Bush lovers out there, this is Bush's war, always was, always will be. Take off your partisan blinders and you will see it as clearly as the rest of the world does. I know, I know, the rest of the world is wrong, Bush is right, LOL. Try explaining to your children why they have to pay 50, 60, or even 70 percent of there earnings in the future to pay for Bush's war, Bush's tax cuts to the wealthy, Bush's medicare plan.
War on terrorism? Bullcrap! He made it a war on terrorism because he knows it can never really be defeated. You see as long as we have leaders like Bush, terrorism against the U.S. will never end. Bottom line, we need to get out of other peoples back yard and start spending some of Bush's billions right here at home. And contrary to what Bush's people say, I think education and health care would be a fine place to start. Our children cant afford 4 more years of Bush.
Posted by farouk on Mar. 31 2004,8:54 am
Back when it was candidate Bush, and the news media was making hay over George's lack of knowledge in geography, something that was said has stayed with me. As I said, George was being pushed by the media on TV in an attempt to show how ignorant he was on world affairs. Stumped, cadidate Bush replied, "Well I have a pretty good idear about how things should be."After hearing this I had a momentary thought that this guy has plans to go to war.
Well as campaigns go, other things came up that occupied the publics interest and the media never got arround to fleshing out what Bush's pretty good idear about how things should be. My momentary thought slipped into my subconscious until the administration started focusing the world on what sounded like some phony baloney linking of Iraq to 9/11. With troops poised in Kuwait, and the administration blustering at the UN, it didn't take minnow to awaken my subconscious. Yes Jim, Bush may not have planned Afghanistan but one would be a fool to say that about Iraq. It would be nice to just admit our mistake and move on but this mistake is beginning to look like we just punched a tar baby.
Posted by jimhanson on Mar. 31 2004,10:29 am
I know that it was in another thread that Mr. Tarzan laid down the ground rules for political debate--but let's have the same rules here. No "party lines"--and if you are going to levy charges, lay out the basis for your charges. Otherwise, we could just listen to the ads on TV, and skip dialogue altogether. | Quote |
| Bush did want to go to war |
| Quote |
| do you all remember when Clinton sent 100 missles into terrorists training headquarters? He was critisized for being to aggresive, and of over reacting to threat |
| Quote |
| Oh it's Bush's war alright. Nobody else was commander in chief. |
| Quote |
| You see as long as we have leaders like Bush, terrorism against the U.S. will never end. |
Finally, do YOU Accept or Repudiate Kennedy's charge?
Posted by minnow on Mar. 31 2004,11:07 am
Great post Hoosier. "You are just blinded by your support for republicans"Exactly! Sorry Jim, I didn't even read your last post, because I'm sure it's jut more blind BS. Don't get me wrong. I used to think you were the smartest poster on these boards, but now it appears that you ARE indeed BLINDED in this matter. Even a blind person could see it.
Your arguments are so stupid..so weak, they don't even deserve a response at this point. It's like your spouting Republican lacky propaganda telling us the sun is out, when all we have to do is look out the window and see it raining!
Now I have no equal here. I'm without a doubt the #1 brain here. Sorry Jim, but there really is no excuse...
You are in the end just a blinded knucklehead...next.
Posted by jimhanson on Mar. 31 2004,1:14 pm
And Hoosiers post was "objective"? And you view it "objectively"? As Jeff Foxworthy would say "Here's your sign". 
Posted by farouk on Mar. 31 2004,1:35 pm
Dam minnow, have you been in the anhydrous again. #1 brain, ya right. There are some day you have trouble string two words together coherently, and you think that you can replace Jim as our community's resident knower of all things great and small. So he has a weekness for that Republican dribble, at least it is put forth in coherent full sentences.
Posted by minnow on Mar. 31 2004,1:49 pm
Let me get this straight...The wrong idea expressed nicely---->is better than the right idea expressed poorly.
Hrmmm. I disagree.
Posted by jimhanson on Mar. 31 2004,4:09 pm
| Quote |
| The wrong idea expressed nicely---->is better than the right idea expressed poorly. |
Wrong? As that Big Daddy of all Democrats, Mayor Daley, Sr. used to say
| Quote |
| "It depends on who is counting the votes"! |
Republican drivel--Nah, Bush is too much like a Democrat--big spending, "me too" prescription drugs, offering amnesty to illegals, big government, instituted Homeland Security and the TSA. Unfortunately, there is too little chance for a meaningful third-party challenge. Too bad there are no Libertarian commercials--then we could TRIANGULATE this discussion.
Posted by MrTarzan on Mar. 31 2004,9:08 pm
I'll try to speak for the Libertarian party when possible. Because of work, school and other commitments, I have not been active the last few days. I have been keeping up reading, but not answering because so many things have been said here that I had not heard before in that fashion, and Farouks posting stunned me. I have no choice but to look them up and later respond, like this weekend. I am a very reluctant Bush supporter, and some of the things I read on another thread, are making me reevaluate even that. Problem is I have a good memory, and I am getting older and wiser, and I am not beginning to hear of Kerry shady deals because of the election, but rather I remember the stories when they first happened. If Bush is as crooked as Farouk says, then I cannot support him either. I need to see data and objectively look up his arguments. Wow, that was quite a diatribe. Some of it I do not need to look up because I know that those things he said are opinion, but if Bush was really best friends with the Enron gang, I will be very disappointed. If he is hindering justice, I will be mad. Just like Marge and Paul should resign for trying to break a federal law. All I know as of today is that I still think Bush is right in being aggressive and not caring what the world thinks. I care what everyone thinks about me, but if attacked physically, and fearing for my safety in the future, I would go after the threat, and not care what anyone said. But that is just me. What assurance would I have that Mr. Kerry would continue the fight and not just pull the plug? I know some people feel you should never resort to violence, and I abhore violence, I've seen a lot of it, but sometimes you just have to fight, and I think this is one of those times.
Posted by MrTarzan on Mar. 31 2004,9:10 pm
I am still trying to find the law enforcement to population ratios between Freeborn County and Cerro Gordo County. Should have an answer soon. 
Truth wants it you know.
Posted by minnow on Mar. 31 2004,11:21 pm
I looked into it one time many years ago and if memory serves. AL has at least 50% more cops per capita....the drink police as I like to call them.---we're the drink police and we're coming for you---Cheaptrick
The city counciler makes money getting em drunk and then the city swarms the downtown at closing time looking to pick up a few $1000 fines. It's a good racket, Tony Soprano would be proud. I've got a better idea. Let's let the arresting officer keep $100 cash money for his family off every OWI. Only when police are fairly compensated do we acheive justice. You know as well I do pot smokers, drinkers and meth heads should be all lined up and shot anyhow. Why do you care if cops are unfair to them? It's all their fault we have to spend $40 million on a jail in the first place. Every problem in life can be traced back to them.
Posted by hoosier on Apr. 01 2004,8:17 am
Jim, how about the floopy disk with Bush advisers telling BUsh that if we make this election about the economy, we lose, if we make it about the war, we win? This was before we invaded. I could go on and on, but you seem to be the only person here that believes everything that comes out of Bush's mouth. And my last post was objective, it doesnt matter to me if he is republican or demacrat. We all know that it does matter to you Jim. I bitch about the republicans because of what they do when they are in office, by the way, demacrats are no better in my opinion, they just arent the ones costing us billions in tax money and U.S. lives at this momment.
Jim on the other hand bitch;s about the demacrats because of who they are and what they believe in.
If you want objective, non partisan discussion, Jim Hanson should not be allowed to post here.
Posted by jimhanson on Apr. 01 2004,9:50 am
| Quote |
| if we make this election about the economy, we lose, if we make it about the war, we win? |
| Quote |
| This was before we invaded |
As I mentioned in an earlier thread, the biggest problem in "arguing" politics is that people tend to use a "one-size fits all" "broad brush". As Mr. Tarzan laid out the "ground rules", IF we are going to argue politics, it needs to be on verifiable SPECIFICS, not political polemics. State your assertion, be able to verify it with facts, and engage in dialogue--not useless drivel like "I don't believe a thing that comes out of Bush/Kerry's mouth". That doesn't convince anyone of anything--except that the speaker is highly partisan. Stick to the facts.
I asked specific questions--no answers.
| Quote |
| So, Hoosier, since Clinton used force, HE must have thought it worthwhile to be involved in the area (or WAS it "Wag the Dog"?) |
| Quote |
| I laid out above the experiences and quotes of a number of U.S. presidents, in their conduct of wars. Those willing and able to use force, for the most part, DIDN"T have to use it. Those that were APPEASERS, or refused to get involved, ended up having to fight. Just how would YOU conduct foreign affairs? How would YOU react to a dictator that killed millions of people, that gave rewards to suicide bombers, that was a destabilizing agent in the area, that exported terrorists, that fired on U.S. aircraft enforcing the No-fly zone, that formerly had biological and nuclear weapons programs, showed a willingness to use them, and kicked the UN inspectors out of the country so they couldn't verify them? Finally, do YOU Accept or Repudiate Kennedy's charge? |
Posted by minnow on Apr. 01 2004,1:20 pm
It's weird how a perfectly rational person like Jim can be so easily led by Republican lacky proaganda. I mean these nutballs are still bringing up Clinton! That says it all...
Posted by jimhanson on Apr. 01 2004,1:46 pm
C'mon, Minnow--you are "trolling" for a "strike"--trying to provoke a reaction.I took the time to mention Presidents Wilson, Roosevelt (Teddy), Roosevelt (Franklin), Eisenhower, Kennedy, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II--and you had to go so far afield as to use the single question I asked of Hoosier
| Quote |
| So, Hoosier, since Clinton used force, HE must have thought it worthwhile to be involved in the area (or WAS it "Wag the Dog"?) |
| Quote |
| Republican drivel--Nah, Bush is too much like a Democrat--big spending, "me too" prescription drugs, offering amnesty to illegals, big government, instituted Homeland Security and the TSA. Unfortunately, there is too little chance for a meaningful third-party challenge. Too bad there are no Libertarian commercials--then we could TRIANGULATE this discussion. |
If you would like to bring up Clinton, I am willing to engage--as stated before, the Republicans PERSONALIZING the Presidential election as embodied by Clinton was a "sea change" in Presidential elections--now seen as PERSONALIZING the fall elections--not about what party will win, or talking about IDEAS--only about DEFEATING BUSH.
Like I said, let's talk about ISSUES, NOT LABELS.
Posted by Truth on Apr. 03 2004,4:22 pm
War is the cost of freedom.If it was cheap than it would be more common in the world. Plain and simple.
All that link shows is that there are enablers alive and well in the world, nothing more.
I think western Europe adopted an appeasement approach to dealing with Hitler's scare tactics in the 1930's. Those super smart Europeans ended up needing us again.
We can't just pull back into a shell and pretend there aren't bad people in the world that want to hurt us. Screw that. We need to show the world that anyone who is in business to do us harm will suffer terribly. I for one will never give in to fear. Push come to shove, you will find most Americans don't care about the cost to preserve freedom, thats what makes us Americans.
Posted by minnow on Apr. 03 2004,4:32 pm
"I for one will never give in to fear"---->That's funny. Because that's exactly what you're doing! War is the cost of freedom.---->Depends on which war...
If it was cheap than it would be more common in the world. Plain and simple.----->The only thing plain and simple is your "short bus" logic.
Posted by Truth on Apr. 03 2004,4:37 pm
What would you cal flying paaenger plains into buildings. An early Thanksgiving Day gift. Move to your precious Europe and cry about it with the rest of the apologists in Socialist Spain and weak kneed France.
Posted by minnow on Apr. 03 2004,4:51 pm
Was Iraq responsible for that?
Posted by Truth on Apr. 05 2004,2:59 am
Weren't they?
Posted by farouk on Apr. 05 2004,5:27 pm
Truth that is nothing more than a hunch, which you are intitled to. Many of us had the same thought at the time but unfortunately, 2 1/2 years later no one has proved it, and those who have something to gain if it were proved are distancing themselves for such claims.
Posted by minnow on Apr. 05 2004,5:35 pm
Do you mean to tell me that truth---->just realized the truth. 
Posted by Truth on Apr. 05 2004,5:39 pm
I say again prove that they weren't.
Posted by minnow on Apr. 05 2004,5:54 pm
Why is it that you simply cannot except the fact that you bought a false bill of goods...were duped. You're the only one left who can't realize it. Even the people who've said it have back tracked, yet you still insist on proving a negative? Why...
YeR as thickheaded and dense as they come monkey boy.
Posted by Truth on Apr. 05 2004,9:59 pm
That's not proof. You spastic nerve bag.
The name calling is why I like you dude, you'er cute; just like a case of mono.
Posted by Daisy Duke on Apr. 06 2004,1:58 am
This war is just a continuation of what baby pants Clinton couldn't do. This was bound to happen the tragedies have been going on for a very long time. Some of this could have been stopped I think if we would have put our foot down in Mogadessu. Clinton is a frickin pussycat and I am glad him and his pathetic dog Al Gore are out!!It is really sad to hear others complaining about the war, so what your telling me is that the people who were murdered on 9/11 deserved in someway?? Cause you know all of them had something to do with the animalistic ways of the Iraqi's! HUMMMMMM.
It's funny though how the Iraqi's and Somalian's hust hate our country yet this is where a lot of them come for vactions and oh yes health care............MAYO CLINIC!! Yet you people agree with this not to defend ourselves. They choose to LIVE that way. A funny note on that is that when they are in the big bad USA they do everything against their religion because and this is their reason..............this is America, this is Freedom, I can do what I want.?
? Yet they want to destroy us!! That my friends is what you call hyprocisy. They deserve freedom but we don't that is just complete and pure insanity. They are absolutely asinine!!We are trying to help build the cities back up and what do they do KILL four American contractors. WHY? ......cause they are a waste of skin........they cannot comprhend anything that might accomplish them. HI, WE ARE HERE TO HELP YOU BUILD YOUR CITIES.......their response to this BANG BANG your dead!! Such freakin dense, brainless so called humans they make me so mad that...........AHHHHHHHHHHHH
I have a cousin over there who is experiencing it first hand as a lieutenant. It is utter chaos and the absurdities of these people is just WACKED!!!!
Posted by minnow on Apr. 06 2004,2:40 am
This war is just a continuation of what baby pants Clinton couldn't do.---->Huh?This was bound to happen the tragedies have been going on for a very long time.---->What?
Some of this could have been stopped I think if we would have put our foot down in Mogadessu.----Some of what? Clinton is a frickin pussycat and I am glad him and his pathetic dog Al Gore are out!!---->Clinton? Don't you know that his 8 years ended nearly 4 years ago. Bush was elected, now we are moving on to a new electon...LOL
It is really sad to hear others complaining about the war, so what your telling me is that the people who were murdered on 9/11 deserved in someway??---->YES! That's it! Because the president went after Iraq, who DIDN'T do 9/11, The victims of the attack deserved it, you're a genious.
Cause you know all of them had something to do with the animalistic ways of the Iraqi's! HUMMMMMM.---->So, I guess no one's informed you that Iraq didn't do it yet...LOL
It's funny though how the Iraqi's and Somalian's hust hate our country yet this is where a lot of them come for vactions and oh yes health care............MAYO CLINIC!!----> This is the product of our educational system folks... Somalians? Mayo Clinic? LOL
Yet you people agree with this not to defend ourselves.----> Because we think Bush went after the wrong party,that somehow means we don't want to defend ourselves? huh? They choose to LIVE that way.----->Who chooses to live in what way?
A funny note on that is that when they are in the big bad USA they do everything against their religion because and this is their reason..............this is America, this is Freedom, I can do what I want.??---->Oh yes! The Iraq people are world travelers and come to America for fun tours all the time!
Yet they want to destroy us!!---->Who is they? El Quida did 9/11. Don't you remember?
That my friends is what you call hyprocisy.---->That's called mindless rambling from a young woman who is so confused that even I'M embarrassed! LOL
They deserve freedom but we don't that is just complete and pure insanity. They are absolutely asinine!!----->After reading that confused mess...I'm insane...now I know how Jessica Simpsons hubby feels...LOL
We are trying to help build the cities back up and what do they do KILL four American contractors. WHY?------>Because we are foreigners. They are brothers. They may fight amongst themselves for power, but will both turn on us just like you would.
......cause they are a waste of skin........------>You hate what you can't even understand!
they cannot comprhend anything that might accomplish them. ------>I can't comprehend any thought in your head.
HI, WE ARE HERE TO HELP YOU BUILD YOUR CITIES.......------>Is that why we're really there? I thought you said it was to pay them back for 9/11?
their response to this BANG BANG your dead!!----->That's what happens when bodies start slapin'---Tone Loc
Such freakin dense, brainless so called humans they make me so mad that...........AHHHHHHHHHHHH ----->They make you mad because they don't simply obey your desire to see them follow the American way? Those bastards don't want to be American...how dare them!
I have a cousin over there who is experiencing it first hand as a lieutenant. It is utter chaos and the absurdities of these people is just WACKED!!!!---->Oh yes, it's obsurd that other cultures don't want to roll over for some foriegn occupiers isn't it?
*I can see with our school system churning out fine young thinkers like yourself...our future is in fine shape. No worries...
Posted by Tassie on Apr. 06 2004,4:07 am
Good Grief, I just agreed with a post by Minnow!!!!!!
Posted by farouk on Apr. 06 2004,8:27 am
Just wait for the new "Draft." It should be here by Christmas! And you were worried over what this war Cost.
Posted by jimhanson on Apr. 06 2004,9:37 am
Compulsory National Service? I'm for it! Men AND women. We are wearing out our people in the military with constant deployments--and not just talking about Iraq and Afghanistan--there was Bosnia, Haiti, Somalia, Panama for the Army, they Air Force has been constantly patrolling (and getting fired at) in Iraq and Bosnian no-fly zones for a dozen years, the Navy, shrunk to less than half its former size in number of ships, finds it hard to put together enough carrier battle groups as far as ships and sailors--and the sub crews are on constant deployment. We are leaning too much on the Guard and Reserve--they have become de-facto front-line troops. This constant deployment has hurt morale.Even without active wars and deployments, I think universal compulsory national service is a good idea. For most young adults, it is a chance to see the real world--not only a chance to see the rest of the world and how it lives, but a chance to see how the real world operates--outside of home, high school, or college.
Compulsory national service does not neccessarily mean military service--there ARE other options to serve.
National Service provides a common experience for the nation--one that everyone shares. In a country increasingly made up of people that have never GIVEN to the country (except for confiscatory taxes), it can be the glue that binds the country together. National Service can be the great leveler--if there are NO EXCEPTIONS, rich or poor end up in the same unit, and the poor man has as much chance to command as the rich.
A separate topic, but related to the one above, is that with common experience, the country might be more unified. If EVERYONE knew what military life was like, they might be more insightful when it comes to matters of deploying troops, or issues that affect not only the military, but the country.
National Service can be the basis for a great educational program--perhaps one year of college for every year spent in the military--perhaps some fraction of that for less hazardous duty. There should be NO reason, if this is adopted, for anyone not to have the education they want.
The U.S. fared well during the time of compulsory military sevice--WW II is perhaps the best example. Other countries--Israel, Switzerland, Sweden, Norway come to mind--have done well. We ought to consider it.
Posted by Liberal on Apr. 06 2004,10:23 am
| Quote |
We are trying to help build the cities back up and what do they do KILL four American contractors. WHY? ......cause they are a waste of skin........they cannot comprhend anything that might accomplish them. HI, WE ARE HERE TO HELP YOU BUILD YOUR CITIES.......their response to this BANG BANG your dead!! Such freakin dense, brainless so called humans they make me so mad that...........AHHHHHHHHHHHH |
You actually believe they were contractors that were there to help? They were mercenaries guarding a convoy.
< http://www.abcnews.go.com/section....-1.html >
Posted by Tassie on Apr. 06 2004,1:48 pm
You're right on Jim, national service would give our youth a time to grow up. It would get them away from home and commuties, perhaps they would then find out how good home looks! Discipline would be taught and how important it is to work as a team to survive. If national service is tied to some form of educational reward maybe it would be easier for lots of youth to get some form of education. I know that we all are alot different after spending a few years away from the area we grew up in. A lot of these men and women would also have a good role model to follow that isn't available to them at home.
Posted by minnow on Apr. 06 2004,3:03 pm
"A lot of these men and women would also have a good role model to follow that isn't available to them at home."Boy, isn't THAT the truth! And it's revealing what it says about those IgNeRant YoKaLs back "home".
You're insane. The draft is political suicide. Why is it that America insists on becoming less free every year. Everyone has a great idea how others should behave and live, so lets make a law, forcing others to do what we want. It's totally unamerican. It's a sickness.
How about this basic concept that we started with. You mind yer bidness and I'll mind my bidness.
You leave me alone and I'll leave you alone.
Posted by farouk on Apr. 06 2004,3:53 pm
Aw, more young foolish death. Draft them all! By god I went to Veitnam and I didn't want to. Now its time to do your thing for god, country, the big oil companies, and your car. So off to Iraq with you. At 18 your old enough to show us what your made of.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Apr. 06 2004,5:01 pm
Farouk I hoped that would not happen, the draft was a mistake in Vietnam all it did was allow for the downfall of our military more protest and lack of support for the war.
Posted by farouk on Apr. 06 2004,5:54 pm
I have two kids of my own who would be of age. I am very proud of them for their contributions to their communities. As a Veitnam vet, who was a draftee, I am very proud of my service to my Country, but I would not wish the same for todays youth. I am in support of our troops where ever they may be serving, but I do not see this war in Iraq the same way I see what was begun in Afghanistan. This Iraq campaign is as fowl as anything from Veitnam. Not our troops fault but our leaders fault. Unjust, and ill planned, this is nothing we need to slaughter our youth for.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Apr. 06 2004,6:14 pm
My oldest son has a wife and child My next son was a marine with the First Marines who invaded the country he is home and out now. He spent 1 year in Saudi, 1 Year in Afganistan, one year at guantomino, and 6 monthes in Kuwait and 6 monthes in Iraq, he was extended for the war and released after six months. My next oldest is married with family, my youngest son Is the age I was when I became aware of what a draft was , My number came up as well. I was as you, proud of what I did, but when I came home I was shamed into re-enlisting.< How the draft works >
Posted by BDV on Apr. 07 2004,10:19 am
I am a veteran, I am against the draft. I feel that we should just keep making it an affordable career choice, and treat them like adults when they join at 18. If they can fight for us, let them drink a beer. When the draftees were around, they caused many problems. The all volunteer Army is way better.
Posted by Daisy Duke on Apr. 09 2004,12:53 am
Wow minnow you are beyond my worst nightmare...how can you stand to look at yourself in the mirror everyday. You are completely beyond human race I think you really must have gills for brains Thank you for quoting me so much, you must like me!!! Actually take time and use your own thoughts if you can find them in your hazed state of mind!!THE PEOPLE WHO DIED IN THE TOWERS DID NOT DESERVE TO DIE BY ANY MEANS!! Minnow you are really frickn messed up!!!
As for you Liberal your name explains it all!! Not everything you hear or read from the news is the "TRUTH"!!! DUH. I feel sorry for your little brain. Are you compensating for something?
Do you read People Magazine too?? Is it your Bible??
Posted by kid dyn-o-mite on Apr. 09 2004,6:08 am
Does your butt look sweet in daisy dukes?
Posted by Truth on Apr. 09 2004,2:02 pm
The war will cost less than isolationism.
Posted by Liberal on Apr. 09 2004,2:08 pm
If you don't believe ABC maybe you'd believe FOX news instead.| Quote |
U.S. officials did not identify the dead or the nature of their work because the next of kin had not yet been notified. However, early evidence indicated they worked for Blackwater Security Consulting, a company based in Moyock, N.C., the company said in a statement. The security firm hires former military members from the United States and other countries to provide security training and guard services. In Iraq, the company was hired by the Pentagon to provide security for convoys that delivered food in the Fallujah area, the company statement said. The abuse and mutilation of the contractors' corpses was similar to the scene more than a decade ago in Somalia, when a mob dragged corpses of U.S. soldiers through the streets of Mogadishu, eventually leading to the American withdrawal from the African nation. < http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,115703,00.html > |
Posted by Truth on Apr. 09 2004,2:19 pm
We must not withdraw here. That was the mistake of mistakes in Somalia. Clinton was a weak stomach, he did not have the strength to fight.The solution in Iraq is complete victory through all out war. Leave only our allies standing.
Limited action will be the undoing in Iraq.
Posted by Truth on Apr. 09 2004,2:24 pm
However, I will say this. Our military armed forces should not be used to police the world through limited policing actions. The purpose of the military is to protect the nation. That includes protecting our nations interests abroad. Our resolve in Iraq should be a complete and crushing military action that leaves no doubt to our resolve. Threats to America will meet with certain and overwhelming doom for our enemies.
Posted by kid dyn-o-mite on Apr. 09 2004,3:23 pm
Our resolve in Iraq should be a complete and crushing military action that leaves no doubt to our resolve.Haven't we already done that? We've disposed the leader and took over control of the country. What more exactly, would you like us to do? What does your heart and mind tell you to do?
Posted by Truth on Apr. 09 2004,3:29 pm
[www.CapitalismMagazine.com] "Is securing Iraq worth $87 billion?" thunders the indignant liberal media establishment. How come nobody ever asks if the following (from the 2004 federal budget) is worth it?
$174 billion for farm crop insurance;
$3.9 billion for the Puerto Rican Nutrition Assistance Block Grant;
$250 billion for Medicare (that is, people under 65 paying for the health care of people over 65);
$177 billion (federal dollars alone) for Medicaid (that is, people who don't qualify as poor paying for the health care of people who do qualify as poor--whether they want to or not);
$38 billion (2003 budget figure) for Housing and Urban Development (that is, government financing of those horrible, run down slums you find in the middle of every city);
$509 billion (2003 budget figure) for the Social Security Administration (that is, the transfer of wealth from non-retired Americans to retired Americans).
It's fine to ask if the war in Iraq is worth it. But would we still have to ask that question if the government didn't already spend hundreds of billions of dollars doing things it's not supposed to be doing under the original Constitutional plan of limited government?
About the Author: Dr. Michael Hurd is a psychologist, psychotherapist and author of Effective Therapy (New York: Dunhill, 1997) and Grow Up America! Visit his website at: www.DrHurd.com.
Leave a nation prepared to handle itself in foreign and domestic affairs, in a manner to to be respected by the collection of world judges; human kind.
Posted by kid dyn-o-mite on Apr. 09 2004,3:54 pm
A. The total cost of of the occupation and war has far exceeded the 87 billion installment. It's roughly around $400 billion at this point. About the cost of the entire interstate road system in today's dollars.B. WHY can't you answer my question?
Posted by GEOKARJO on Apr. 09 2004,4:09 pm
currently the cost of the war is just over 100,000,000,000< cost of war >
Posted by kid dyn-o-mite on Apr. 09 2004,4:24 pm
-Our resolve in Iraq should be a complete and crushing military action that leaves no doubt to our resolve-He hates! He's righteous! He's powerful! He wants to KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL those he HATES! Mere occupying is NOT enough. WE MUST MASS KILL! KILL! KILL! I need bigger guns for my job! I love guns! hehe I HATE DOPERS! DEATH TO DOPERS! DEATH TO WELFARE SCUM!!
Oh, by the way. Can you all see fit to make me a law enforcement officer, your law enforcemnt officer?
Posted by Truth on Apr. 09 2004,4:31 pm
Law enforcement in the domestic setting is far different from military action in a foriegn land. Your inability to discern the difference is more frightening than any interest I have in firearms and their importance to preservation of freedom or my beliefs in the way military forces should be deployed.
Posted by kid dyn-o-mite on Apr. 09 2004,4:46 pm
Your posts speak for themselves. You sir are not fit to serve us our hamburgers let alone serve as our law enforcment officer. You just don't turn on/off a brain that thinks like that. You've exposed yourself and what you've shown is a narrow minded prejudice and hatred towards those you don't approve of. You're a disgrace to the good men and women in blue everywhere. 
Posted by Truth on Apr. 09 2004,5:32 pm
Maturity is the ability to have an opinion yet recognizing the appropriate times to allow opinion to influence action. I know the difference as illustrated in my ability to see that war against a murderous dictator is not the same thing as enforcing local, state and federal laws.Your brain seems to have turned to mush Kid dynast-o-mite. Serve burgers? I couldn't work with you dude your laziness and fixation would drive me crazy.
Posted by kid dyn-o-mite on Apr. 09 2004,5:45 pm
--Maturity is the ability to have an opinion yet recognizing the appropriate times to allow opinion to influence action-- Really...Is that right? I just read the definition of maturity and nowhere does it suggest that you'll be able to keep your opinions from influencing your action, your behaviour.
If you are so bold as to sit there and tell me that your biases do not affect your police work in any way, then I will be so bold as to call you a liar sir. Because we both know the "truth".
Posted by Truth on Apr. 09 2004,6:23 pm
No, only one of us knows the truth. You sir, don't seem to know anything.If you want to make unaimed attacks at what you percieve as my profession I should think you to be the scorned victim of unfair treatment at the hands of cops. Sad, however, I know that I would not form such an opinion of all accountants even if I were screwed by one.
If I intended to give you the dictionary definition of maturity I would have done just that. Perhapse for the younger reader I should have said an aspect of maturity involves having opinions, yet knowing when it is appropriate to act on those opinions.
Sorry dino, I'll try to keep things at a lower grade level when I'm talking to you.
Posted by kid dyn-o-mite on Apr. 09 2004,7:30 pm
I see. You're just impersonating a law enforcement officer. THAT makes sense. You're deleted F*#KER!
Posted by Truth on Apr. 09 2004,7:37 pm
I see you're just impersonating a human that makes sense................blah blah blah curse word......stick out tongue, cry and go home.Baby.
Posted by Truth on Apr. 09 2004,7:40 pm
The total cost of of the occupation and war has far exceeded the 87 billion installment. It's roughly around $400 billion at this point. About the cost of the entire interstate road system in today's dollars.LIAR!
Posted by kid dyn-o-mite on Apr. 09 2004,7:48 pm
You're correct. Those are older estimates. The actual cost is much more and rising. You're just a punk who wants to pretend the color of authority. You're not a LEO. You just play one on the net.Did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?
Posted by Truth on Apr. 09 2004,7:54 pm
No at my house why? Stalker!
Posted by Mamma on Apr. 09 2004,8:57 pm
Minnow...go back and read your last few posts. I think you need to increase your medication. Don't make me call your mother!!