Topic: Library Study
started by: Nose for News
Posted by Nose for News on Jan. 28 2004,5:50 pm
$8,000.00 Albert Lea Library Study Now Online< http://www.city.albertlea.org/librarybuilding.htm >
click building cost analysis
Posted by minnow on Jan. 28 2004,5:59 pm
Well, now that we've spent the money for a study, we may as well spend 8 million on a library or the 8 thousand will be wasted. 
Isn't it nice the study picked the same site as Sparkey and the librarian. It's funny how things work out like that isn't it...
Posted by ICU812 on Jan. 30 2004,12:27 pm
Con for Walmart site. Potential identity problemA sign above the door that says LIBRARY might fix that con.
Posted by LisaMarie on Jan. 30 2004,12:31 pm
Or painting it a different color other than Wal-Mart blue.
Posted by guest on Jan. 30 2004,12:42 pm
how about taking part of the parking lot and turning it into a park area to also better identify it. That way the kids would have a park to have activities in that coordinate with library activities
Posted by ICU812 on Jan. 30 2004,12:43 pm
As far as a new library goes I think they should put it on Pam Bishops shoulders. If she can bring in enough new business to generate the tax money needed for a new library then the city can build it how they want, where they want and when they want.
Posted by MADDOG on Jan. 30 2004,1:13 pm
Yes, and isn't amazing that this site gives Barkema the two most important things she wants, parking and a lake view.I find it amazing that the consulting company found this the cheapest and most convenient site, and it's right where half our city officials wanted it in the first place, including Barkema.
So they build a a city building on a piece of prime tax revenue property instead of letting some business come in and build a business that would generate tax income for the city.
Posted by BeBack on Jan. 30 2004,2:37 pm
Hell MADDOG, they couldn't build it at our new WATERPARK down at the FARMLAND site, you know where the caseno is also going. Why the pages would get all wet and hard to turn.
Posted by Hugh H. on Jan. 30 2004,3:14 pm
| Quote |
| Why the pages would get all wet and hard to turn. |
Spoken like someone who has experience with wet and hard to turn pages......
Posted by jimhanson on Jan. 30 2004,6:12 pm
Reviewing the library report from the link provided on this thread--there are some areas on which I'd like to have additional information.From the Librarians 2003 report
| Quote |
| The library now has fourteen public computer workstations that provide access to the Internet, a very high demand service with 30,000 people using these computers annually. |
| Quote |
| So if the whole population of Freeborn county is considered to be a service population (basic and extended) and they form 100 percent of the circulation, for this assignment for the design population, I will use a total of 34 750 patrons - the projected population for the county in the year 2020. (Minnesota Planning - < http://www.mnplan.state.mn.us/). > |
| Quote |
| What interests the library planners is the fact the predictions show the largest part of county population in 2020 will be age 10- 19 years |
(Videos, from 1996 study)
| Quote |
| Extremely popular items in Albert Lea Library. Due to the distance traveled by the remote borrowers, the library established 7 days period and 2 videos limit. Relative balance of print to non-print should be about 8-12 percent – currently the Albert Lea library it is almost 21 percent. Is the library in danger of turning into video rental place? |
| Quote |
| Video recordings per capita in enhanced level 34,750 x 0.12 = 4,170. The Albert Lea library has almost twice that number of videos now. |
| Quote |
| From 1996 report--Currently there are nine computer stations (not carrels) in the adult area and five in children’s – some are obsolete dumb terminals (PAC) which will be removed shortly. All computers are heavily used and patrons are timed to 30 minutes use per visit. In 2001 Internet computer stations were used 19,382 times and in 2002 27,289 times. There is no word-processing software loaded and all computers have filters installed. There is a networked printer for patrons use. Children’s computers are preloaded with children’s games and there are CD-ROMs that can be checked out or used on the premises. |
Take the time to zoom in on the questions that were asked about the relative merits of each site. As pollsters have proved, "You can get the answer you want if you ask the question in the right way". The questions don't seem to be weighted--that is, "Proximity to office space" is as important as "available parking". I would think the questions should be weighted--are they?
While the report would have the reader believe there is a clear winner, the top 3 candidates are easily within the "margin of error" (as pollsters say)--at 74.78% for the Arends building, 75.10% percent for the existing building, and 81% for the "annointed" site--insignificant differences, especially considering the questions asked.
I didn't see the workup on how they figured the cost of the project--does anyone know if that is available? Did they consider moving ALL offices out of City Hall? Just the Fire Department?
I'm not saying that the conclusion isn't correct, only that I'd like more information about the survey. I'd LIKE to support library expansion. Please convince me.
Posted by danbelshan on Jan. 30 2004,6:54 pm
I posted this last May. I still think this idea is worth looking at (County Historical Research Museum, City Library at one site) If you don't like the cap and tractor idea don't let it stop you from the joint facility idea. I was just throwing out ideas for debate. The former WalMart is for sale now so this could be an opportunity. With over 80,000 square feet it has ample room for Public Library, County historical research records, children's library, historical displays, storage, expansion and more. It could help traffic at the mall, would have plenty of parking and ample room inside for seating, is all on one floor (modern technology could handle children's noise level), handicapped accessible, and is located in one of the most if not THE most densely populated areas of the county.
The old KMart building in Austin was turned into a wonderful corporate office for Hormel. The technology they used could be implemented to turn the old WalMart into a very useable, versatile, attractive building inside. There would be plenty of room for green space outside.
I had asked Walmart representitives in Bentonville to give us the property earlier . If we would go to them as a county/city/public joint effort and convinced them to give it, or even set a very low cost they could be our next Andrew Carnegie. It doesn't cost anything to try.
If we'd get it for free or a reasonable cost, this site beats every other site location unless a lake view is the most important criteria, and as an added bonus would help mall traffic and eliminate another abandoned building in Albert Lea.
Library Ideas Posted 5/1/03 < http://www.freeborncounty.com/ >
Option 1
Two years ago I presented to the City of Albert Lea and County an idea of buying the soon to be vacant WalMart Building and putting County and City offices at that site making a Government Center. Sort of one stop shopping. Who knows, we may have been able to share some city/county staff.
This has already been done in a struggling strip mall in Blue Earth MN with the FSA office moving in. The traffic revived the mall with banking, insurance, coffee shop, barber and they even had to add on to rent more space. I felt this could be done on a larger scale at our Skyline Mall. The traffic created by a Government Center would help the rest of the Mall, and there would be plenty of parking. Instead we will spend $40,000,000.00 downtown and may watch the Skyline Mall struggle.
Option 2 (second brainstorm idea)
This winter I mentioned "How about moving the City Library to the Skyline WalMart Building." The County could also put the research library and archives of the County Museum on that site. The building could also also house displays for which the museum needs more room.
Since we are so ag-related let's put some restored tractors and ag equipment on loan from local collectors at the site. Then let's accept the world's largest cap collection from a gentlman at Frost MN. He is looking for a place to display his over 50,000 caps. We now have a reason for folks to get off the Interstate to look at The World's Largest Cap Collection. Next let's line up National Antique Tractor meets, Toy Collector Shows, Tractorcade Drives (I've heard one is coming to our area this summer) and when people come to town we can have antique tractors sitting all over town to welcome them like the Snoopy/Peanuts statues in the Twin Cities, etc.
In closing, what we could be
Future News AP
Albert Lea MN AP June,2006
Albert Lea, home of four national antique tractor shows and swap meets and home of the largest farm toy show in the upper Midwest again draws more than 25,000 people a day to one of three three-day events this summer, topping the attendance at this year's winter show. After JenSales,one of the USA's largest tractor manual dealers, and Carlyle Greibrok, with his huge scale toy collection teamed up with the CVB to promote bus tours, over 200 bus tours came to the Ag Mall in Albert Lea, where they viewed the World's Largest Cap Collection and shopped the many theme stores at the mall and downtown. Be sure to reserve your room for the next Tractorcade, which ends up at the superb Freeborn County Fairgrounds to kick off Fair Week, held the first week in August with great nationally known grandstand entertainment. 500 tractors are already registered for the 60 mile ride, and rooms within 30 miles of town are getting booked fast.
Posted by Montyman on Jan. 30 2004,11:02 pm
Do you think that County and City goverment can work together on a joint Library, etc. Dan?I think it's a good idea.
What happens to the old spaces, though...and do we really need a new library?
Posted by danbelshan on Jan. 31 2004,1:51 am
Montyman, it's not a question of can the County/City work together, it's our duty to do so for the benefit of the taxpayers. The County kicks in over $180,000 toward the library operation yearly and does not have a representive on the library board. Do we need a new city library? The City is the entity which judges that and makes the decision. If the City is going to build one, spend 5.6 million on 26,000 square feet, ( $215 per square foot). I hope we would be asked if any joint needs could be addressed.
I have proposed a joint committee on sharing resources. We've been trying to line up a meeting of the City/County since November, and are still trying. If the City chooses to build a new library and there is a chance to share space with County Historical Archives, etc I think we should at least look at it. I've been shown the Hormel corporate offices and saw what could be done with that type of building. I hope that at least we run the numbers and have it discussed in the community lest we make the same mistake that happened when a joint jail/judicial study was nixxed by our board and we didn't even look at sharing costs and facilities with Mower County.
In my opinion if you want unbiased information it must come from someone with no vested interest or future rewards from one option over another.
Posted by guest on Jan. 31 2004,9:49 am
I don't know enough about where to locate it, but Maddog, this prime property that you are talking about, anyone try to buy it? It's a nice location, but I don't recall lots of offers on it....I have heard lots of people say it would be great for a coffee shop or hotel, but have never seen anyone with the $$$$ step up.
Posted by MADDOG on Jan. 31 2004,10:13 am
LOL, guest. To have someone buy the property, we would probably need some new business or even a developer to buy it. Do we see Pam getting that done, NOT.The Farmers Market does use it in better weather. Remember, it was the city that asked them to relocate there in the first place.
Posted by guest on Jan. 31 2004,10:56 am
LOL at yourself....you are the one that posted the prime property and getting on the tax roles not me. There may be lots of good reasons to not go there, you posted one that does not stand up. What color is the sky in your world?
Posted by Liberal on Jan. 31 2004,11:20 am
Does anyone know the history of that land? When and how the city aquired it? Has the city ever tried to sell it or has anyone ever offered to buy it?
Posted by MADDOG on Jan. 31 2004,11:32 am
Right now guest, the color of my sky is slightly white. 
What I meant is the city could sell the land to someone that wanted to develop it and receive property tax from it.
Posted by minnow on Jan. 31 2004,12:01 pm
It should be a massive senior campus with a tram to the hospital. Several high rise buildings should span the area between the lakes. A perfect senior campus with almost every apartment having a dynamite water view. A Walgreens could fit very well into this picture.
Posted by Montyman on Jan. 31 2004,2:09 pm
That land had Town Club lanes, some houses, and Sanders Drug on it.Remember the Kar Klub?
That was there too.
I think ALHRA acquired it and made it into a parking lot.
Posted by Montyman on Jan. 31 2004,4:29 pm
Oops--wrong site.That was the north Broadway site...
Posted by BeBack on Feb. 01 2004,6:21 pm
I've been told that their is space in the existing city hall building that the library could use but our librarian has refused it. I'm not opposed to a new library if one is truely needed but I don't think Albert Lea or the County are NOT in any position to be building any more new buildings WITH TAX BASE THE DON'T HAVE!
Posted by funny guy on Feb. 01 2004,7:20 pm
Don't worry, the tax base is booming in Albert Lea. In fact, the city issued 1, yes 1 whole new house building permit in Jan!I just hope it wasn't an outhouse, you never know in Lea.
Posted by jimhanson on Feb. 02 2004,10:43 am
If you click on the link in the first post, the benefits and costs of each site come up. The current site ranks well (most important criteria, it has a lake view!) (sarcasm)--but the cost is high--$4,940,000 to reinforce the floors (?), and a total cost of $10,392,636--including $3,200,000 for new city offices.I didn't see the proposal for moving the fire department out of City Hall--no need for them to be there operationally--the library can either take the vacated space, or move the city offices down to the fire department space.
The fire department could use a better location--perhaps on the Farmland site--there is access to Main street, there are many alternate routes to avoid train tieups. The fire department is space-constrained anyway, and moving the department out of City hall frees up a lot of parking. Building a firehouse has got to be cheaper than building new offices.
Posted by Tom Newell on Feb. 02 2004,11:53 am
Jim a new, more useful, fire station would be something I would support before I could support a new (monument) library building. The question is do we need either? It is my understanding that the existing City Hall building has 20% of its square footage either underused or unused. If this is the case we would be better off developing this existing space and saving the tax payers the capital expense of new construction for a date when it would be more economically feasable for this community to bear. Locating dead records and files to an off site warehouse is one hell of a lot less expensive than continuously building new government buildings to basically warehouse old records and files.
Posted by guest on Feb. 02 2004,12:03 pm
you could use the fire and pension fund to build a new fire station which would not cost the tax payers any additional money. They you could remodel the existing building to make additional room for the library. However, I still believe that an independant community group should be formed to look at the library and see if their is more room that could be used by rearranging things in the current location.
Posted by jimhanson on Feb. 02 2004,12:34 pm
Tom--you are correct--I have many previous posts questioning whether additional space can be found.I don't know of a lot of unused space in the building, other than the old bookmobile garage under the Childrens library. I do often question just what the library should be, though. SHOULD we be providing free internet service for the community, or should that be a function of an "internet cafe"? SHOULD we be providing free VHS and DVD movies to the community (the report seems to indicate that we have TWICE as many as most libraries), or should that be left to video rental stores? Same thing for free music?
The Children's library seems to be not nearly as crowded as the adult library--but part of the rationale for expansion is that it is used for "storytime". Should we be building a $10,000,000 building for a 20 minute session once or twice a week, or could they just schedule the multi-purpose meeting room, only feet away? The report mentions "CD ROM games, available for checkout or use at the library". SHOULD we be providing games, especially in a library environment?
You are also correct in asking if some files and storage can be moved off-site--or perhaps down to the engineering vehicle site. The guest poster that posted after your post, and while I was typing this one, called for a citizen's committee. I believe we need one. HOW IN THE WORLD CAN YOU MAKE PLANS FOR A FACILITY UNTIL YOU HAVE A CONSENSUS ON WHAT THAT FACILITY WILL BE?
Posted by Tom Newell on Feb. 02 2004,1:22 pm
One doesn't need a hallway on either side of the central stairway. That is space readily available to the existing liabrary space which wouldn't effect anyones space. Now that I have given you a start keep looking.
Posted by Frustrated on Feb. 02 2004,3:00 pm
There needs to be a referendum or something to disallow the cost of the study from recovery through tax revenues and to require whoever authorized it to pay for it themselves.
Posted by Frustrated on Feb. 02 2004,3:05 pm
Why would they want to move the firestaton now when they can wait and build a shiney new one after the new library is finished?
Posted by Frustrated on Feb. 02 2004,3:08 pm
Still seems to me like there not making adequate use out of the Brookside jr high bldg.
Posted by Tom Newell on Feb. 02 2004,3:25 pm
That is school property, and although it would be nice to be able to group all the local government buildings together and say these are our buildings, for this specific library issue it would be best not to go there. If you choose to we will get lost in the turf war that will follow.
Posted by BeBack on Feb. 02 2004,3:55 pm
A new firehouse, properly located and staffed would reflect favorably to property owners in the way of annual insurance cost. Now where did this issue come from? Do they need more space than they currently have? How long has it been an issue? How many other city employment groups need a new building? Do they all need a view of the lakes? Do we have anything more valuable that could be taken off the tax rolls and used for a civic project? Is there a list or are we going to get these building requests one at a time until Albert Lea dries up and blows away?
Posted by jimhanson on Feb. 02 2004,4:15 pm
BeBack--the fire department hasn't put in a request. The possibility came up on the old Trib. forum--the fire department gets along just fine there, but there is no operational reason for them to be located in City Hall--the building was just available. The exits from the Fire Hall aren't the best--going North, only Bridge ave.--going to the west, they can go down Fountain, or have to go through downtown to Main--no clear shot going East--and South means going through downtown, and possibly getting stopped by train traffic. Most new firehouses have a pull-in, pull-out design.Moving the fire dept. out would make the space available, and increase parking--one of the shortcomings listed in the survey for the present location--and it is cheaper than building a new library.
One of the other options that was not considered is to add on to the lake side of the library--over the entrance to the old Bookmobile garage--in effect, making an "L" of the existing building. I'm sure it could be done much cheaper than the $10,000,000 project cost talked about (unless the County gets hold of it--then we'll have Lease-Revenue bonds and it will cost $25,000,000!
(sarcasm) It would be contiguous space, wouldn't require strengthening floors, and most important, would still have a Lake view! (sarcasm)
Posted by The Advocate on Feb. 02 2004,8:39 pm
If the entire County is going to be paying for a new library then why are not the County Commissioners involved in this newest venture? Those of us that reside outside Albert Lea will have as the old saying goes "Taxation without representation" I believe there are questions of legality here. Would someone who is aware of this please advise the rest of us?
Posted by Pleasure on Feb. 02 2004,8:45 pm
If you are going to build a new Library,then it should go to a public Referrendum and let the voters decide.Not do what the Chicken $hit county Commissioners did for the new courthouse.
Posted by BeBack on Feb. 02 2004,8:46 pm
I have never had a parking problem when I have visited the library. If I couldn't get a spot up top, I generally found one down below. Only once did I have to park at St. Theodore's and I didn't mind the walk. I think parking is a bogus issue trumped up to justify building a new library.
Posted by To A TEE on Feb. 02 2004,8:52 pm
Because the library study was already approved by the Albert Lea City Council and the County Board of Commissioners were not involved from the very start there is a conflict of interest between the two bodies, hence, the Albert Lea City Council has no authority to tax the county residents. After having said that it is obvious that whatever study is conducted and whomever conducts it the outcomes will just be a reflection of what those authorizing the study want in the first place. And that is the very reason why the residents of Albert Lea and Freeborn County are upset. Their voices are not heard. Our voices can only be heard at the ballot box. We have to get rid of those representatives that do not represent their constituents.
Posted by Willie on Feb. 02 2004,9:02 pm
The county commissioners have never done anything in thirty years I have been here. That is until they fell in love with the plans for the new court house. Being they got that all screwed up I think you will see them going back to doing next to nothing on a new library building. But then I could be wrong again, because 4 of the commissioners and Gabe have a great appreciation for new buildings.
Posted by Slick on Feb. 03 2004,1:07 pm
A guest suggested the fire fighters pension being used to build a new firehouse at no cost to the tax payers. How does that work, or is that just some more local humor?
Posted by irisheyes on Feb. 03 2004,5:11 pm
The reason people have trouble finding parking at the library is because people that work for the city park in the "one hour" parking in front all day.
Posted by Willie on Feb. 03 2004,5:29 pm
Just was on the Albert Lea Tribune site and they are polling people on the library issue here in town. If you want to express an opinion, might be a good place to do it. It athttp//www.albertleatribune.com
Posted by PO'ed on Feb. 03 2004,5:49 pm
why can't I vote for no library? 
Posted by guest on Feb. 03 2004,6:09 pm
Read the editorial page. It looks like Tribune has gotten onboard with Barkema so "no library" is no longer an option.
Posted by Far Away on Feb. 04 2004,3:02 am
Hi There,So you want a library? Or at least the real estate developers want to take a shot at driving up real estate prices in the down town area.
The trib says the "cheapest library" location will be $5.6 million. They argue its a very usefull place for people who need to use a library, but I guess unless it has a pretty view it won't be usefull.
Some math,
$5.6 million dollars, 10 year life span, about 30,000 residents in the county
$186 for each man, woman and child
$746 for each family of four
Wow, doesn't sound like such a good deal to me.
Posted by Hanna on Feb. 04 2004,7:52 am
I Need, I Need, I NeedI need a new house. Well, I really don't NEED one, but I'm running out of space, and I do have more visitors each year.
I need a new garage. Well, I really don't NEED one, but storage is a problem sometimes.
I need another computer. Well, I really don't NEED one, but being able to let all my friends use the internet for free would be nice.
I need more DVD's. Well, I don't really NEED any, but my friends could save money if I had more DVD's to loan out.
I need more bookshelves. Well, I don't really NEED them, but some of those old books I have in boxes would look better on my shelves.
I need more high-tech equipment. Well, I don't really NEED it. But my neighbor has it, so I need it to.
I need to re-arrange the neighborhood. Well, I don't really have to re-arrange it. But if I did, I could have my house viewing the lake, my front yard touch the golf course, and have more parking available to me for all my visitors. The neighbors shouldn't mind. They have needs to, so they can move, shuffle, and rearrange so that I get the stuff I NEED.
Well, it all sounds really good, but now I realize that my pocket book won't support all my needs, so I'll stay in my house, park my truck in the same garage, work on the same computer, live with my current DVD collection, keep those boxes of books (cause I know where they are), forget the high-tech gadgets, and forget about rearranging the neighborhood. Apparently my neighbors and my fire department weren't as excited about it as I was.
Posted by minnow on Feb. 04 2004,9:56 am
I want stuff, but need YOU to pay for it. I'm not paying myself...I just want to spend your money. That way I don't care about the cost as much and it's easier for me to buy expensive things that I need. Well, of course I don't really need it but you're buying. And you wouldn't be buying if it were too much, right? LOL...works eve$rytime...
Posted by MADDOG on Feb. 04 2004,12:16 pm
Getting back to the possibility of a joint county/city effort. Every year, the county gives way over $100,000 to the library. It's not just city residents that use the library, but the whole county and more. Yet, the people of the county have no say in what the library does. Why, because even after Balshan has repeatedly asked, there is no county official on the library board.
Posted by To A TEE on Feb. 04 2004,8:48 pm
I'll repeat it again. " Taxation without representation" that is exactly what the Albert Lea City Council and the Librarian have in mind for the county constituents. The County Board has no say or vote in this process. County folks are not represented yet they are expected to pay for a new library. The ONLY way to appease all parties and have a Democratic process is to take the vote directly to the people. All the people! The vote will be do you want a new library or not. The vote will not be where should the new library locate. Initially, one needs to have a consensus concerning the need. A study was done and the study concluded exactly what Barkema and the City Council wanted. And how could that study possibly know what the people want? The constituents of Albert Lea and Freeborn County have got to take back their power and demand a vote.
Posted by crazycat on Feb. 05 2004,4:48 pm
Maddog - why would the county board give 100K without a rep. sounds like pretty nice ransom money to me. want the money, put Mr. B on the board!
Posted by jimhanson on Feb. 05 2004,5:58 pm
4-1, 4-1, 4-1, 4-1, (sarcasm)
Posted by cwolff on Feb. 05 2004,9:50 pm
How about a 5% additional sales tax, and while we are dredging we can build an island with all the dredged silt, and then we can build a $40 million dollar library on the island with a casino next to it? We could name it Gabby Island! We could also have a medallion hunt every year on the island to draw people to the area.
Posted by Montyman on Feb. 06 2004,6:38 pm
Can't build on dredged silt. Good thought though, but I think it would be a 'mudallion'.
Posted by guppie on Feb. 06 2004,10:54 pm
clean my pond out, clean my pond out...