Topic: SMOKING BAN
started by: KITTY122
Posted by KITTY122 on Jul. 28 2004,11:08 am
I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WERE THE COUNTY STANDS ON THE SMOKING BAN? 
Posted by spike on Jul. 28 2004,12:22 pm
oh boy...here we go again... 
Posted by KITTY122 on Jul. 28 2004,12:33 pm
well im new here, and i quess you have discussed this before,,all i asked is were they stand. 
Posted by ICU812 on Jul. 28 2004,1:13 pm
From somewhere on the net but it speaks for me| Quote |
| COALITION TO BAN COALITIONS Hank Williams Jr THIS IS THE COALITION TO BAN COALITIONS I AIN'T A POLITICIAN BUT I'VE GOT VIEWS SOME FOLKS WANNA BAN CARS, SOME WANNA GET RID OF FENDER GUITARS WHY DON'T YOU DO YOUR THING AND WE'LL DO OUR THING TOO NOW THEY WANNA TAKE MY CIGARETTES AND ALL MY GOOD WHISKEY THESE DAMNED COALITIONS THEY ARE AFTER YOU AND ME THEY WANNA GET RID OF MY FOURTY-FOUR AND ALL THE "R" RATED FILMS IF ONLY THEY KNEW HOW MUCH WE'D ALL LOVE TO GET RID OF THEM THIS IS THE COALITION TO BAN COALITIONS THE VIEWS OF A MUSICIAN, YEAH, I'VE GOT SOME SOME FOLKS WANNA BAN CARS, SOME WANNA GET RID OF ELECTRIC GUITARS WHY CAN'T EVERYBODY ELSE LEAVE EVERYBODY ELSE ALONE NOW THE LATEST THING THEY WANNA STAMP OUT IS VIOLENCE ON T.V. AND THE WORST OF ALL, IT'S THAT OSCAR WINNIN' RABBIT BUGS BUNNY FAREWELL FOGHORN LEGHORN, SO LONG YOSEMITE SAM THEY'RE MESSIN' WITH OUR HEROES AND WE GOTTA STOP 'EM NOW AND THIS IS THE COALITION TO BAN COALITIONS I AIN'T A POLITICIAN BUT I GOT VIEWS SOME FOLKS WANNA BAN CARS, SOME WANNA GET RIDE OF FENDER GUITARS WHY DON'T YOU DO YOUR THING AND WE'LL DO OUR THING TOO THIS IS THE COALITION TO BAN COALITIONS THE VIEWS OF A MUSICIAN, YEAH I GOT SOME SOME FOLKS WANNA BAN CARS, SOME WANNA GET RID OF ELECTRIC GUITARS WHY CAN'T EVERYBODY ELSE LEAVE EVERYBODY ELSE ALONE HEY YOU DO YOUR THING AND WE'LL DO OUR THING TOO NEXT THING YOU KNOW THEY'LL WANNA STAMP OUT DUCKS |
Posted by GEOKARJO on Jul. 28 2004,1:15 pm
Read My signiture reply Kitty122
Posted by DrBombay on Jul. 28 2004,1:23 pm
I think a smoking ban in bars would devastate these small business's. What do Burns and Bartusek care anyway, it's not like they would become regulars at the Nasty Habit anyway.
Posted by ICU812 on Jul. 28 2004,1:57 pm
| Quote (DrBombay @ July 28 2004,1:23:pm) |
| I think a smoking ban in bars would devastate these small business's. What do Burns and Bartusek care anyway, it's not like they would become regulars at the Nasty Habit anyway. |
It's not about them. It is about them knowing what is best for all the residents in Albert Lea, and these two guys know.
Posted by DrBombay on Jul. 28 2004,2:03 pm
Yes they do, they're BRILLIANT! :cool:
Posted by Uncle Ben on Jul. 28 2004,4:59 pm
It's no different than Geo wanting to jail all pot smokers, then seize all their assets for forfeiture. Did you know that in MN and most other states, that if one grows even one marijuana plant in his home, that home as well as everthing in it including any vehicles and bicycles...EVERYTHING will be seized for forfeiture. Even if that person is found innocent at trial at a later date. Doesn't matter, they still lose everthing. I don't see you fighting that fight. Why not?
Posted by DrBombay on Jul. 31 2004,1:40 am
If this is truly the law then yes it should be fought. One plant would hardly imply intent to sell.
Posted by Tassie on Jul. 31 2004,2:30 pm
You smokers may smoke all you want as long as I don't have to breath the effects of your habit. The same goes for people who wish to drink or smoke pot. Your rights end when they infringe upon my rights to breath clean air and my right to drive on a highway and not be endangered by your inability to drive after you have enjoyed your "rights"I am a former smoker and drinker so please don't tell me I don't understand your "rights" and the arguments that you make to justify your addictions........
Posted by Uncle Ben on Jul. 31 2004,7:35 pm
But that's not what you do. You jail a pot smoker for smoking in his own home. Then charge him with a felony and seize everthing out of his home(including his home) for forfeiture.
Posted by Tassie on Jul. 31 2004,8:08 pm
Then wouldn't common sense tell you that you shouldn't use pot? Be it right or wrong that pot is illegal. If you want the laws changed get active politically, organize, raise hell, do what ever it takes. Maybe you'll be successful, maybe not. Or you can say it's not worth it....................Please do something or quit bitchin'.........
Posted by Uncle Ben on Jul. 31 2004,9:58 pm
Medicinal users can't be public activists for obvious reasons...are you serious?! 
People smoke and drink which anyone can agree are for more addictive and dangerous substances yet we don't destroy their lives over it. Some people need cannabis for various medicinal reasons and thus it shouldn't be included in 'schedule 1' with meth. It's barbaric in this day in age when civilized countries jail cannabis users and steal all their assets. The answer lies with voters like who must not rule out libertarian candidates and views.
Posted by Tassie on Aug. 01 2004,7:05 am
So what you are saying is that pot should be OK for medicinal users only? I don't have a bit of a problem with that! When pot is used by persons to increase their appetite during chemo or to give pain relief during their final months of life it should be considered a drug and given by prescription. Cannabis is no worse than codeine or morphine when used only under doctor supervision..What I do disagree with is the statement you made to the effect that smoking and drinking are far more addictive than cannibas. Have you or someone you know ever tried quiting smokin' dope completely? Be honest. I have seen potheads go through the same type of withdrawel as us former smokers and boozers.Could it be that the fact that we could easily grow our own pot and we could bypass the drug companies the reason pot is illegal???You are aware that drug companies have well paid lobbiests and contribute heavily to many public figures? Maybe if you would offer congress the power to put a tax on pot?
?
Posted by Uncle Ben on Aug. 01 2004,8:16 am
Have you ever heard of any one death from cannabis? Now, on the other hand how many from cigs and alcohol? It should be a no brainer. Aspirin kills more people that pot??? How can you really be that brainwashed?
No worse than opiate narcotics?! You need to get an education girlfriend. 
"Be honest. I have seen potheads go through the same type of withdrawel as us former smokers and boozers." Here you even compare pot to real addictive substances like tobacco and nicotine. Trouble is...is you only ruin your health when you don't quit the two hard ones. It's called education...get some.
Posted by Mamma on Aug. 01 2004,11:07 am
If a pot smoker is sitting in his house smoking and they break the door down and charge him with a felony and seize everything he owns.....you can bet he is doing more than smoking a joint. You don't get charged with a felony for smoking a joint. And, once again...when someone dies of lung cancer they don't say what they were smoking. How do you know that those people that are dying from lung cancer aren't pot smokers? I'm going with Tassie on this one. It's getting really tiresome listening to a grown man whine. You don't seem to want to do anything to change the situation except whine about it.
Posted by Tassie on Aug. 01 2004,11:17 am
Keep smoking pot, little boy,and your friends will wonder where your mind went if they aren't already. You obviously haven't spent any time at a treatment center and watched a pothead sit in a stupor for the first week. After that the main thing that they notice is how clear their mind has become. As for the statement that pot doesn't kill haven't you heard about smokin' dope and driving? It does kill when you're high and drive into a family minivan loaded with kids!I will not comment any more about your addiction because it is obvious that you are in complete denial and anything anyone says will not be believed by you
Fountain Centers may have a place for you if you wish to get help when you are ready. Good luck, you sure do need it!!
Posted by Uncle Ben on Aug. 01 2004,5:58 pm
"Keep smoking pot, little boy,and your friends will wonder where your mind went if they aren't already."This displays your perfect ignorance. It's BOOZE that kills brain cells, not pot. Like I've already told you and I hate to have to keep repeating myself. You are brainwashed about pot and that statement proves it. "After that the main thing that they notice is how clear their mind has become" So... here you of course, must mean that "they" means EVERYONE, right? Of course...:laugh: Actually most chronic users will be even more confused and fuzzy after quitting for the first month or so.
Now for Momma,
"If a pot smoker is sitting in his house smoking and they break the door down and charge him with a felony and seize everything he owns.....you can bet he is doing more than smoking a joint"
Not really true. If a neighbor smells pot or even a "funny" smell and calls the police, a deputy will be asked to do a abandon property search. That means working with your garbage hauler to get your garbage. The hauler picks it up and flys around the corner where he hands it off to said deputy. They'll take it back to the law enforcement center and search it with a fine tooth comb. If they find any seeds stems or leaves, or even a few roaches or 1 empty baggie with the corner ripped off, it provides enough evidence to get a search warrant signed one of your local district judges. Unless one buys from a dealer and supports drug dealing which no one wants to do, he grows a few plants under lights.
That's enough for the cops to seize for forfeiture the house and it's entire contents, incuding your bank account and vehicle... I'm talking even your sunglasses and leather coats...EVERYTHING of value you've accumulated your entire life. Your items will be sold at sheriffs auction where the proceeds are split between the local police and the prosecutors office with 10% or so going to the state.
Don't believe me? This isn't some made up story. I'm that guy...
Posted by Mamma on Aug. 01 2004,9:15 pm
And that was exactly the point I was trying to make. You were not only using it, you were growing it. How are they to know that you didn't intend to sell it? If you truely do use pot as a medicine, why don't you go see a doctor and find something legal that will help you?
Posted by Uncle Ben on Aug. 01 2004,11:01 pm
"And that was exactly the point I was trying to make. You were not only using it, you were growing it."So...that's somehow worse?!
How else will I be able to use it, buy it? Are you suggesting that drug dealing is better? I know you're not because that'd of course be rediculous. I've been to a doctor and tried them all for my condition, prozac, paxil, wellbutrin and most of the rest. They either have real aweful side effects or simply don't work or both.Please don't hate me because I've found something that makes my life better. Thank you
Posted by Mamma on Aug. 02 2004,6:43 am
Now, Ben, I didn't say I hated you. I was just trying to be helpful. Is it better to try to find a legal cure, or lose everything you have gambling you can get away something illegal?
Posted by Uncle Ben on Aug. 02 2004,8:11 am
The point is... that it's not right that I should have to make that choice. It's not my fault I have this condition and also not my fault that cannabis, God bless, is the only thing that works. I didn't make the rules, I'm only playing the cards I've been dealt the best I can.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Aug. 02 2004,10:35 am
My god man! Fountain Centers can help you kick your addiction and live pain free and get your life back on track.
Posted by Uncle Ben on Aug. 02 2004,7:59 pm
Pain free? How do you know my symptoms you idiot!
Posted by ICU812 on Nov. 11 2004,12:56 pm
From Trib 11-11-04| Quote |
| Editorial: Smoking ban could become a reality statewide With a new legislature, Gov. Tim Pawlenty is seeing a spark of hope for passage of a statewide smoking ban. The Nov. 2 election replaced 13 Republican incumbents from the House with DFL candidates, creating a nearly-even split between the two branches of government. Pawlenty would support a smoking ban in public places, he said, should such a bill reach his desk. With the previous legislature, he didn't believe a bill was possible. According to Dean Johnson, Senate Majority Leader, most businesses favor a statewide ban over local or regional ones. Whether he is accurate in his assessment or not, a smoking ban appears destined in Minnesota. The health risks of second-hand smoke is evident: we doubt most smokers will argue them. But the issue erodes what many smokers believe is their "right" to smoke. The two sides have previously lined up facing each other, ready to do battle and we don't see anything changing: The issue is divisive. Somehow, the legislature, should the topic come up this session, must find a happy-medium which addresses the health risk while leaving smokers' rights intact. Smokers and non-smokers must also keep their emotions in check as this debate continues because no good will come from a state divided. |
The election is over, and this topic always spiked interest among the members here, so let the comments fly. I was against a ban 2 months ago, now I could care less, just leave my filthy, no good, good time, pull tabbing, 5 buck a pack watering holes out of it. And if smoking is banned in restaurants, cell phones should be too. Or at least put in a cell-phone section. (Good evening sir, will it be cell phoning or non cell-phoning for you and your guests tonight?)
If there is a statewide ban implemented, you can still go to the injun casinos and puff away. Just think 10 or so years ago the teachers could smoke in the teacher lounges if they felt up to it.
If a smoking ban goes into effect along with the .08 law in August I really hope all the local bars can stay in business, could be a good time to buy a liquor store.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Nov. 12 2004,10:53 pm
How about a meat eaters and vegatarians section, My god I just can't stand seeing lettuce mangled like that.
Posted by Mamma on Nov. 13 2004,7:00 am
I know exactly what you mean George. Personally.....it's those guys in cowboy hats that set me off....who knows what is lurking behind that brim. Yes. Maybe they should outlaw those too.......oh...and people in sunglasses.....you just don't know when they are looking at you. :0
Posted by hoosier on Nov. 13 2004,9:34 am
I read in the Star Tribune today that some guy in the cities wants to get a ban on leaf blowers.What is it with people that makes them think they know what is best for all others?
I have never smoked, but I could care less if anyone else does.
If its to smokey in a bar, DONT GO THERE!
This isnt about people worrying about others health.
This is about people wanting to impose their will, the way they want the world to be, ON OTHERS.
To me, its like the idiots that try to get radio shows or TV shows banned or taken off the air because they dont like it.
TURN THE STATION YOU IDIOT!
Same with this smoking ban. Why should people that have no financial interest in a business be able to tell a bar owner that his customers cant smoke? On his property?
Just another intrusion of our rights.
By the way, the dumb@ss in the cities that is mad about people using leaf blowers?
He doesnt want to stop there, he wants all outdoor power tools banned in his neighborhood.
Gas powered mowers, gas powered snowblowers.
Thats why even if you dont smoke, you have to fight these idiots that want to chip away at our freedoms.
And again, before you come in here and say something stupid about second hand smoke.
If you dont like it where people smoke.
THEN DONT GO THERE!
Pretty simple, but stupid people will argue with it anyway.
Posted by hoosier on Nov. 13 2004,9:38 am
Having said that, I would support a ban at the work place. But only indoors. People dont have the choice to stay or leave.
Any outdoor smoking ban, is just plain stupid.
Again, others imposing their view of the world on all others.
What arrogance!
Posted by GEOKARJO on Nov. 13 2004,1:20 pm
Beg your pardon Momma but I think I look good in my hat and I like my hat.
Posted by Mamma on Nov. 13 2004,4:33 pm
Yup...you do look good in your hat. I'll give you that one! But who knows what is lurking under there? I need to get me a hat like that. 
Posted by Paul Harvey on Nov. 13 2004,7:07 pm
Country music star fantasy's, eh?
Posted by GEOKARJO on Nov. 14 2004,12:07 am
You can get a hat like this in St Joseph, Mo. Home of the Stetson and a New Pork Packing Plant that Albert Lea Didn't get. Gee what brought them to St. Joe. Maybe if Albert Lea was the home of something except a 1950s Rock Star and a 1980 Sitcom Mom do you think we could rate National Attention.Country Star Hmmm, Fantasy
Posted by GEOKARJO on Nov. 14 2004,12:20 am
| Quote |
| The Green Mill restaurant is tuned in to the needs of the Albert Lea. The restaurant has decided to remove its brew-pub and replace it with a banquet room, providing a meeting space and a room to hold special events; and from 11 a.m. to 7 p.m |
Imagine That
Isn't the Green Mill non-smoking? They had an outdoor patio,too.
Posted by Paul Harvey on Nov. 14 2004,3:49 am
I can see why. You can't drink and drive anymore at all. 2-3 beers and you're screwed for a grown man. Just start getting a buzz on and bam! you're over the limit. No one wants to take cabs and buy expensive drinks.
Posted by DrBombay on Nov. 14 2004,9:33 am
The last I knew they had a smoking section, or did they put in the big ban in the last couple of months?
Posted by GEOKARJO on Nov. 16 2004,9:59 am
LONDON — The British government said Tuesday it would seek a ban on smoking in most public places, including restaurants and any pub or bar that serves food. The proposed ban would be phased in gradually if it is approved by Parliament, Health Secretary John Reid (search) announced.
It would first apply on government premises and eventually in offices, restaurants and any pub or bar where substantial food is available, he said.
Bars and pubs that serve no food — about 20 percent of England's drinking establishments, Reid said — would not be affected by the ban.
"This is a sensible solution, I believe, which balances the protection of the majority with the personal freedom of the minority in England," the health secretary said in announcing the proposal to the House of Commons.
"Our starting point is informed choice, that means an approach that respects the freedom of individual choice," he said.
The ban would apply only in England (search), which along with Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland makes up Great Britain. Scotland's government announced last week that it would seek to ban smoking in all enclosed public places by 2006.
So we all pack up and move back to England to recieve our individual freedoms.
Posted by taraindiana on Nov. 16 2004,8:46 pm
I work at Greenmill. You can smoke there.
Posted by Liberal on Nov. 19 2004,4:57 pm
| Quote |
Seven Minnesota cities and four counties have enacted smoke-free laws: _Moose Lake prohibits smoking in all restaurants. Went into effect May 2000. _Duluth prohibits smoking in all public places including restaurants. Went into effect January 2001. _Cloquet prohibits smoking in restaurants and within 5 feet of a restaurant entrance or window. _Moorhead will prohibit smoking in public indoor workplaces effective Dec. 15, with exceptions for bars and walled-off bar areas in restaurants. _Bloomington prohibits smoking in all public indoor workplaces, 50 percent of outdoor patio space, 25 feet from entrances, windows and ventilation intakes. Establishments with liquor licenses will go smoke-free March 31. _Golden Valley will prohibit smoking in all workplaces, including bars and restaurants, all outdoor dining areas, 25 feet from entrances, windows and ventilation intakes, and all city parks and recreation facilities. Goes into effect March 31. _Hennepin County will prohibit smoking in all bars and restaurants March 31. _Minneapolis will prohibit smoking in all public places including bars and restaurants March 31. _Beltrami County will prohibit smoking in all indoor public spaces and workplaces except bars and restaurants where smoking will be permitted from 8 p.m. until 3 a.m. This policy will go into effect Jan. 1. The exemption for bars and restaurants will expire Jan. 1, 2007. _Olmsted County prohibits smoking in restaurants with less then 50 percent of their sales in liquor. The ordinance went into effect November 2001. _Ramsey County will prohibit smoking in establishments with less than 50 percent of their revenue from the sale of liquor effective March 31. --- Source: Minnesota Smoke-Free Coalition |
I can't imagine why you wouldn't rather have someone smoking next to you in Cloquet just to mask the odor of Cloquet.
Posted by Paul Harvey on Nov. 19 2004,11:13 pm
If pot were legal I'd certainly understand why folks wouldn't want me stinking up the place. It's just common courtesy to smoke where it doesn't affect other people.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Nov. 20 2004,10:17 am
Common courtesy my assNo1. You sneak out back cause you don't want to share
no2. Since it has always been illeagal it is just a natural habit to hide when you do it. kind of like when you where 2 and messed your pants.
Posted by Paul Harvey on Nov. 20 2004,11:25 am
3. Since it(cigs) has always been leagal it is just a natural habit to effect others indoors when you do it.
Posted by ICU812 on Nov. 22 2004,1:03 pm
| Quote |
| Supporters of statewide smoking ban see reason to hope Updated: 11-22-2004 09:49:25 AM ST. PAUL (AP) - Three decades after Minnesota became the first state to restrict smoking in public buildings, key political leaders are eyeing a much wider ban. Seven Minnesota cities and four counties have passed restaurant smoking bans since 2000, and some have banned smoking in bars and workplaces as well, but connecting the dots statewide has been a tough sell at the Capitol. That could change now, given the big Democratic gains in the House and a governor friendly to the cause. Governor Pawlenty says he'll sign a smoking ban if it reaches his desk. Any legislation is certain to be strongly opposed by the hospitality industry, which argues that such a ban would damage many mom-and-pop bars and restaurants. |
Wont be long now.
< I didnt realize how many states had smoking bans already >
Posted by MADDOG on Mar. 09 2005,5:22 pm
Did anyone go to the Smoke Free Coalition meeting today? I know we'll hear about it in the paper and on the news, but I'd like to know the "real" scoop.
Posted by ICU812 on Mar. 10 2005,10:34 am
| Quote (MADDOG @ Mar. 09 2005,5:22,pm) |
| Did anyone go to the Smoke Free Coalition meeting today? I know we'll hear about it in the paper and on the news, but I'd like to know the "real" scoop. |
From Todays Bune.
| Quote |
| Smoke free draft 'well-designed' By Ann Austin, Tribune staff writer As much as it was anticipated, the introduction of a draft ordinance for smoke free workplaces in Freeborn County was received by few community members yesterday. But reactions from people who did show up, about 11 total for two meetings, were positive. Both J.C. Scrutchfield and Jerry Levorson, residents of Freeborn County, attended the 7 p.m. meeting and found the ordinance to be well-designed. "I don't see anything wrong with it myself," Scrutchfield said. "I was for it four years ago." Scrutchfield, who used to smoke, has suffered from asthma for many years, making it hard for him to remain in smoky areas. Though Levorson had questions about how penalties will be issued and possible repercussions for business owners, he also felt the ordinance was done well. He was glad it covers service clubs since he and Scrutchfield are members of a local service club, but don't like to visit since it can be so smoky. "I used to smoke two packs a day, but haven't for the last 30 years," said Levorson. It's a trend they've been seeing in the community as well. "There's a lot more people that are nonsmokers than smokers these days," said Scrutchfield. From what they've found talking to people they know, the men estimate public reaction will be much like what the Freeborn County Smoke Free Workplace Coalition has found from their surveys, about a 70 percent smoke free approval rating. The ordinance took quite a while to complete. Action began about a year ago and the ordinance has developed slowly, with assistance from several legal offices including the Tobacco Project and the Freeborn County Attorney's Office. The draft describes dangers of secondhand smoke and issues with secondhand smoke in workplaces. Phil Bartusek, co-chair of the coalition, spoke during the presentation. "People should have the freedom to enter a public place without having to encounter the effects of secondhand smoke," he said. "The ordinance does not prohibit smoking," he said. But it does detail that smoking is prohibited in public places and places of work and within 15 feet of entrances, exits, windows, and so on. Several areas are not included in prohibition, including privately rented hotel rooms and residences, motor vehicles and outdoor spaces. People in charge of work places are required to post "no smoking" signs, ensure that ashtrays, lighters and matchbooks are not provided where smoking is prohibited, and ask any person who smokes in the vicinity to stop or leave the area. Enforcement of the ordinance will be followed by the city and county law enforcement agencies or others designated by the county. Penalties are set at $100 initially and $300 for a repeat violation within one year for a single person. Fines will also be enforced for property owners, ranging from $100 for a first offense to termination of a food or liquor license for a fifth offense. At the meeting, County Administrator Ron Gabrielsen said he would ask commissioners to put the issue on their agenda and hold a public hearing to decide if they should approve the ordinance. "They're going to weigh the facts. If there is something you disagree with, now is the time (to state concerns)," he said. "The key is to get this out into the public so they know what the hearing will be on." Similar ordinances have been passed in Ramsey and Hennepin Counties and will go into effect later in March. Commissioners may consider how the other communities respond to such ordinances before they decide whether to adopt Freeborn County's. He expects the hearing will be held sometime in the middle of April, so people have time to look over the ordinance. "Where we all benefit is if we do it right, if we take everyone's concerns in," Gabrielsen said. |
I would have to say that if only 11 people attended that the majority of people feel a smoking ban is a good thing.
Anyone see different?
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 10 2005,10:40 am
| Quote |
| But it does detail that smoking is prohibited in public places and places of work and within 15 feet of entrances, exits, windows, and so on. |
With this wording you could not even have a smoking deck attached to the back of the bar or allow smoking on public sidewalk uptown.
Posted by Liberal on Mar. 10 2005,10:49 am
This was in the Tribune yesterday, do you think this is why nobody showed? Or do you think it's because most people know this isn't going to happen since the only supporter left on the board is Mullenbach?| Quote |
People will have a chance to ask questions about the ordinance, but it won't be like a public hearing where people voice their opinions in support or opposition of the ordinance. Along with Severtson and Bartusek, other members of the coalition will be present including ALMC Director of Community Relations and Marketing Patti Hareid, Dr. Jim Burns, and Public Health Director Lois Ahern. A representative from the Minnesota Department of Health and someone from the Tobacco Law Project may also be present. The information session is the final step in a process to gather information from the public and create an ordinance for Freeborn County. Coalition members are hoping the draft ordinance will be presented to the county board at an upcoming meeting and the commissioners will call for a hearing. |
If you can't offer your opinion then why would they say that this is the final step in gathering information from the public?
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 10 2005,10:51 am
Looking around outside my store I would have to walk down to Dane Park or stand in the center of the back parking lot to be in compliance with the ordinance. If this ordinance passes the police will have to enforce it. Therefore hiring more officers to make random checks of establishments and sidewalks to catch violators.
Posted by MADDOG on Mar. 10 2005,10:56 am
I have no problem going into a place to eat and not have a cig, but if you ban them from bars in this town, you will kill business. Trust me, I know; and I don't even frequent them.
Posted by ICU812 on Mar. 10 2005,11:01 am
I can see it now, people who smoke will be trying to have a few drags outside during work or between drinks at the watering hole. All ducked down trying to hide it from the smoke police, (the guys with smokalizers and a tape measure). Brings me back to hiding cigarettes from them when the smoking age went to 18. I have since cut down on smoking, I only puff with booze.
All in all I hope that establishments whose customers a mainly smokers will be able to continue to do business and make a living. If a business lost sales so bad that they had to close the doors, who would be at fault?
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 10 2005,11:01 am
Almost a 1000 dollars a year for a licensing fee for a bar to stay open till 2 am. Since Eddies has been license to be open till 2 am business has doubled. Increasing sales tax revenue. The Smokefree bandwagon say that there will be new customers to take the place of the dislocated smokers. I think not. Bars will close. Liquor store sells will improve smokers will gather in private homes after work having a couple drinks with their smokes unwinding from the daily grind. Mower county is not that far away, Northwood isn't either. Not only will it take revenue from Albert Lea it will take revenue away from the state.A study showed that cigerette sales are down, it doesn't mean that there are less smokers it means smokers having been restricted to the availability of places and times to smoke. At work 8 hours a day a smoker has two 15 min break and a half hour lunch in which to get the Nic Fix.
Many business will have to redesignate new smoking areas.
Posted by ICU812 on Mar. 10 2005,11:04 am
| Quote |
| People will have a chance to ask questions about the ordinance, but it won't be like a public hearing where people voice their opinions in support or opposition of the ordinance. |
I noticed that too
| Quote |
| Or do you think it's because most people know this isn't going to happen since the only supporter left on the board is Mullenbach? |
So after it is written and sent to the board they will shoot 'er down?
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 10 2005,11:16 am
| Quote |
| People in charge of work places are required to post "no smoking" signs, ensure that ashtrays, lighters and matchbooks are not provided where smoking is prohibited, and ask any person who smokes in the vicinity to stop or leave the area. Enforcement of the ordinance will be followed by the city and county law enforcement agencies or others designated by the county. Penalties are set at $100 initially and $300 for a repeat violation within one year for a single person. Fines will also be enforced for property owners, ranging from $100 for a first offense to termination of a food or liquor license for a fifth offense. |
Now this makes the sale of lighters and matches illeagal in the county.
This also is asking the owner of an establishment to be a cop and enforce the law.
So if I am standing outside the Music store smoking and the sales clerk doesn't come out and tell me to move on he will be sited and the owner.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 10 2005,11:24 am
A couple times a week a group composed of an attorney, doctor and business owers step into the bar with their wives to socialize and the men like to light up a cigar. The men do not smoke cigarettes but enjoy a cigar with their drink. That is one example of business lost.
Posted by Botto 82 on Mar. 10 2005,11:33 am
| Quote |
| "I used to smoke two packs a day, but haven't for the last 30 years," said Levorson. It's a trend they've been seeing in the community as well. |
Well then, the L.J. "Cap" Emmons Auditorium is saved then, isn't it? Get CEA on the phone right now. With all this healthy thinking going on, we sure don't need a hospital expansion now, do we?
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 10 2005,11:50 am
I just measured the distance of 15 feet from my door. 15 feet extends into the right turning lane of the street. That means a passenger could not smoke in a car waiting to turn at the stoplight. Since I have to enforce it. I will call in every license number of every car with a smoker in the passenger seat.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 10 2005,4:46 pm
Press Conference TonightMarch 10, 2005
7:00 PM
Plaintiffs Bloomington VFW, Bloomington Legion, Bloomington Eagles, Bloomington Knights of Columbus, Lyon's Pub and Stub and Herb's today Filed a Complaint suing the City of Minneapolis, City of Bloomington, and County of Hennepin.
Plaintiffs request the Hennepin County District Court issue a temporary restraining order enjoining the Defendants from enforcing their local smoking bans, which are scheduled to take effect March 31.
A Judge will hear arguments regarding the temporary injunction on Friday, March 11, at noon.
The Plaintiffs and their attorney will address the press this evening at the following address:
VFW POST #1296
311 West 84th Street
Bloomington, MN
7:00 p.m.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 10 2005,4:49 pm
Issue #319 is now online: < http://www.smokersclubinc.com > 1. Economic Losses Due To Smoking Bans
2. Call For Passive Smoke Harm Proof
3. School-based smoking prevention programs ineffective
4. Smoking Benefits
5. MN and MI say NO
6. Industry
7. Big Pharmaceutical
8. We Are Everyday People
9. From The Mailbag
Your local ban news, editorials, world news. Smoking Pill, I Am
Polluted, CA now in your bedroom and litter box, CT fights, MO
fights, RI retreats, VT reverses, and a lot more!
Best wishes,
Samantha Phillipe
< http://www.smokersclubinc.com >
Check the Events page for a Smoker's Rights Night near you.
Write for information on how to host one.
< http://www.smokersclubinc.com/modules.php?name=News&new_topic=58 >
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 10 2005,4:51 pm
SAINT PAUL, MN - Libertarian Party of Minnesota 2005 Convention HappensApril 9
The Libertarian Party of Minnesota 2005 Convention will take place
Saturday, April 9 at the beautiful Galtier Plaza in downtown St. Paul,
Minnesota.
This “Pro-Freedom Event of the Year” will feature over a dozen of top
national and local Libertarian speakers, fine dining, exclusive
auctions, workshops, free gifts, vendor booths, and special one-day
discounts on pro-liberty books and videos.
The speeches will feature national topics like the explosive “Big
Government” budgets from the Bush Administration to local topics like
the smoking bans and private property rights.
Featured Speakers:
Michael Badnarik, 2004 Libertarian Party Presidential Candidate and
Constitutional Scholar
James Bovard , Best-selling Author and Journalist
Sue Jeffers, Restaurant Owner and Political Activist
David Strom, President of the Taxpayers' League of Minnesota
Michael Wilson, Filmmaker of "Michael Moore Hates America"
Edmund Contoski, Environmental Planning Expert
Amanda Phillips, President of the Free State Project
Ed Thompson, Former Libertarian Party of Wisconsin Chair
Vin Suprynowicz, Author and Columnist for the Las Vegas Review Journal
Mary O’Connor, Libertarian Brooklyn Center City Council Member
Mark Thorsted, Libertarian Otsego City Council Member
Dr. Lee Kurisko, American Board of Radiology, and former Canadian
Citizen
Mark Selzer, Hollywood Television Producer of the “Libertarian
Alternative”
Doug Scribner, Television and Radio Producer
Tickets can be purchased for $65 online at www.lpmn.org or by calling
651-646-8980. For convention inquiries call 952-897-0375 or email
convention@lpmn.org.
__
The Libertarian Party is committed to America's heritage of freedom
individual liberty and personal responsibility, a free-market economy
of
abundance and prosperity, a foreign policy of non-intervention, peace,
and free trade.
The Libertarian Party is the third largest political party in America.
More than 600 Libertarians currently serve in elected and appointed
office across the country, seven in Minnesota.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 10 2005,5:04 pm
Another Ban Failed: MO Maryland Heights says NOMaryland Heights Council opposes proposal to ban smoking
Posted by samantha on Sunday, March 06 @ 07:13:23 EST
(Read More... | 2435 bytes more | Score: 0)
Another Ban Failed: MN Smoking Ban Falls In House Committee
State update... no ban!
Posted by samantha on Thursday, March 03 @ 11:31:39 EST
(Read More... | 14985 bytes more | Score: 3)
Another Ban Failed: IN State Ban Gutted
State bill to ban smoking gutted by its sponsor
Posted by samantha on Tuesday, March 01 @ 11:42:21 EST
(Read More... | 2011 bytes more | Score: 0)
Another Ban Failed: MT exempts bars and casinos
Lawmakers exempt bars, casinos from smoking bans for second time
Posted by samantha on Wednesday, February 23 @ 07:23:19 EST
(Read More... | 3599 bytes more | Score: 0)
Another Ban Failed: Paris says NO to ban
Paris cigarette ban goes up in smoke
Posted by samantha on Monday, February 21 @ 10:43:40 EST
(Read More... | 2609 bytes more | Score: 5)
Another Ban Failed: ND House defeats anti-smoking measure
House guts, then defeats anti-smoking measure
Posted by samantha on Saturday, February 19 @ 10:16:26 EST
(Read More... | 2576 bytes more | Score: 5)
Another Ban Failed: WA King County NO MORE BAN
State high court: Local boards can't ban smoking
Posted by samantha on Sunday, February 13 @ 09:27:20 EST
(Read More... | 3100 bytes more | Score: 0)
Another Ban Failed: NC Greenville Says No
Greenville not looking to follow smoking ban
Posted by samantha on Sunday, January 30 @ 12:08:41 EST
(Read More... | 6487 bytes more | Score: 5)
Another Ban Failed: Ban Reversed
SMOKING BAN TO BE REVERSED
Posted by samantha on Sunday, January 30 @ 08:38:30 EST
(Read More... | 851 bytes more | Score: 3)
Another Ban Failed: SD House Rejects Ban
House rejects smoking ban
Posted by samantha on Thursday, January 27 @ 11:18:42 EST
(Read More... | 10756 bytes more | Score: 0)
< read more on these bans that failed >
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 10 2005,5:08 pm
Another Ban Failed: MN Smoking Ban Falls In House CommitteeState update... no ban!
Posted by samantha on Thursday, March 03 @ 11:31:39 EST
(Read More... | 14985 bytes more | Another Ban Failed | Score: 3)
News: MN Shame On You!
The Antis get money to tell us how the ban is working out. Why isn't someone doing this that doesn't care about the outcome?!
Posted by samantha on Wednesday, March 02 @ 11:08:56 EST
(Read More... | 5196 bytes more | News | Score: 3)
Tax: MN Tax Alert
Cigarette tax passes house committee
Posted by samantha on Wednesday, February 23 @ 08:52:53 EST
(Read More... | 1690 bytes more | Tax | Score: 5)
Ventilation: ETS 150 times lower
Anonymous writes "
New test results show ETS 150 times lower than OSHA TLV on nicotine
See the facts and complete story here.
< http://www.fightcityhall.net/_wsn/page2.html >
Mark Wernimont
www.clean-air-quality.com
cleanairquality@yahoo.com
"
Posted by samantha on Monday, February 21 @ 13:44:38 EST
(Read More... | Ventilation | Score: 5)
News: MN Castration Proposed
Chemical castration proposed
Posted by samantha on Friday, February 18 @ 08:58:11 EST
(Read More... | 3305 bytes more | News | Score: 0)
Privacy Issues: MN Cigarettes And Welfare
Cutting cigarettes from welfare a silly proposal
Posted by samantha on Thursday, February 17 @ 15:55:23 EST
(Read More... | 1897 bytes more | Privacy Issues | Score: 4)
Tobacco Industry: MN Ban Flavored Cigarettes?
Minn. Governor Seeks Candy Flavored Cigarette Ban
Posted by samantha on Thursday, February 17 @ 14:37:03 EST
(Read More... | 3647 bytes more | Tobacco Industry | Score: 0)
Smoking: Second Hand Freedom
The "Freedom to Breathe Act" is a bad law based on bad science and second hand smoke will never be as dangerous as second hand freedom.
Posted by samantha on Monday, February 14 @ 15:26:13 EST
(Read More... | 8782 bytes more | Smoking | Score: 5)
People Ban: MN Meeker County
Meeker County Update
Posted by samantha on Monday, January 31 @ 10:28:09 EST
(Read More... | 10750 bytes more | People Ban | Score: 0)
News: MN Personal Liberty
Smoking ban debate is about personal liberty
Posted by samantha on Thursday, January 27 @ 12:19:06 EST
(Read More... | 4929 bytes more | News | Score: 0)
< Read more on this information >
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 10 2005,6:03 pm
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/minnesotasmokers/ >Minnesota Smokers is a public group for people in MN to discuss the smoking ban issue.
If you are a smoker or non-smoker... welcome!!! Please start talking about the smoking ban situation in MN and others will join in. We are against bans, so if you are for them and want to post, please go somewhere else.
If you are an anti-smoker and just here to lurk to see what you can learn... welcome!!! Sit back and lurk, we hope you get more information then you wanted and maybe realize that there really are two sides to this issue. Tobacco is a legal product. We are free citizens. If you want to take our freedom away, we hope someone bigger and meaner comes along and takes some freedom from you that you do care about.
A few general rules for every successful group:
1. Post a real post. If you just send an advertisement and no real post, this list will become "moderated" overnight and every post will have to be approved by the owner before going to the list. We all get enough spam as it is, we don't want it going out to the list.
2. Understand that when you have your say, others will also. Don't try to tick off people. Don't get ticked off when they don't agree with you. Respect each others view and move on. People who just want to fight will be removed from the membership. You can always start your own Yahoo group for people who want to get into fights.
3. If the group gets active and you are getting too much mail, click on the "Edit My Membership" link above and change to "Digest" version. Then you will only get one email a day from the group with all the day's posts in it. It's easy to scroll down and skim without opening each message.
4. If you like to write, please answer a lot of posts in one reply. You can answer 10 posts in one and it helps to cut down the amount of mail generated to the list. Thanks.
What's New
New within the last seven days:
Messages: 7
Recent Messages View all Messages (204)
Mar 10 Damn The Man and His Smokin Ban Comedy Show - sthompson_pinkmn
Hey there, Mark your calendars for March 26th at Stausis, as we will be doing a
Mar 10 Re: Freeborn County Proposing Ban - geokarjos_2000
Smoke free draft 'well-designed' By Ann Austin, Tribune staff writer As much as
Mar 10 Urgent Press Release-Please forward everywhere - mplssue
Press Conference Tonight March 10, 2005 7:00 PM Plaintiffs Bloomington VFW, Blo
Mar 10 Tide Has Turned. States and towns say NO! - samanthaph
Howdy, Issue #319 is now online: < http://www.smokersclubinc.com > 1. Economic Loss
Mar 8 Libertarian Party of Minnesota 2005 Convention Happens April 9 - corey_stern
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Libertarian Party Of Minnesota 799 Raymond Avenue Saint P
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 10 2005,6:42 pm
Ban Damage:Deaths, Injuries, Rape, and more!
How many people have to die or be hurt before the Antis realize that smoking bans are a bad idea, and dangerous to people? There are thousands of other victims with injuries from smoking bans that never reach the media.
What is the exact "body count" the Antis are waiting for? Would they please apologize to these people, and the grieving families for putting their lives and their loved ones into harms way? Would you like to explain to a child whose Mommy or Daddy will not be coming home that you don't like the smell of smoke? Tell someone that their spouse or child is dead because you didn't want people to do something legal in a place you never go to anyway?
If the Antis don't like to be around smoke, they should use their freedom of choice to not enter a building where the owner has decided to allow it. They should not be allowed to push their will on others at the expense of human life.
New York: A bouncer at a Manhattan nightclub died after he was stabbed in a brawl that police said began when he tried to enforce the city's new ban on smoking in bars and restaurants. Dana Blake, 32, died about 11 hours after the late-night fight in an East Village nightclub.
New York: Sherwin Henry, 23, who was re-selling cigarettes bought in bulk from a Long Island Indian reservation, was fatally shot in the head on the rooftop of an East New York, Brooklyn, apartment building on Nov. 19.
Florida: Boy, Shane Michael Farrell, 13, dies in beating on street. The 15-year-old boy was being held at the Department of Juvenile Justice in Daytona Beach on a second-degree murder charge. Authorities could not say if he would be tried as an adult.
Utah: A teenager was murdered for smoking in downtown Salt Lake City. Hard-core members of Straight Edge have a terroristic bent that make them potentially more lethal than traditional street gangs, police say.
Africa: Baby sister killed in brothers' anti smoking crossfire. 3 Year Old Girl Dies In Smoking Ban War. The girl was shot in the head while her brothers argued about smokers rights.
Colorado: Courtney Chinn, 25, of Colorado Springs was shot and killed in an area near the Anchor Lounge where smokers congregate on September 20, 2003. The crime remains unsolved. Calantino said he believes the problem of crime outside of bars where smokers gather will persist.
Ohio: Man Beaten To Death For Not Giving Up Cigarette. Ricardo Leon, 23, died after being beaten outside Partners Pub on Dennison Avenue on Cleveland’s west side.
Canada: The Tragedy of Kenny Kim. Kenny Kim was killed. Ten days ago, as he was closing the shop on a Friday night, an attacker stabbed him several times in the stomach and left him on the floor, where he died in a pool of blood. "A cigarette is like a piece of gold."
Canada: Stabbed bartender dies. Forty-nine-year-old Jayantha Peiris died at Sunnybrook Hospital of stab wounds after a dispute with three young patrons.
Africa: Man Gunned Down. A drinker has taken offence to a fellow drinker lighting up a cigarette in a pub and went to extreme measures to stop him - he shot the smoker in the head, killing him.
UK: 'Devil' man killed wife and two sons over her smoking. John Jarvis, 42, stabbed his wife Patricia in the heart and then murdered their sons, John, 11, and Stuart, eight, so they could join her. More.
Massachusetts: Smoking Student Killed. A 20-year-old Mattapoisett man died from head and internal injuries after falling from a balcony at a party in Mission Hill.
UK: A female backpacker fell 100 feet to her death from the roof of a hostel early yesterday. The 20-year-old Canadian plunged six storeys into a lane at around 3am. One theory is that she climbed on to the flat roof of the no-smoking Edinburgh Backpackers hostel for a cigarette. The girl was taken to Edinburgh Royal Infirmary with head and body injuries and declared dead on arrival. (6/8/04)
UK: Boy smoker hanged himself. A 12-year-old boy hanged himself with his school tie rather than admit to his parents that he had been caught smoking, an inquest heard yesterday. David Arnett received a "severe ticking off" from his form tutor at Cavendish School in Eastbourne, East Sussex, who smelled smoke and found a packet of cigarettes. She gave him 24 hours in which to tell his parents, Jane and Robert, after which she said she would tell them. Davis told a friend his parents would be ashamed, and hours later hanged himself from his bedroom door handle as his father prepared dinner.
Wisconsin: Girl kills herself after being caught with a cigarette. May 19, 1999, was the day seventh-grader Timijane Martin was suspended for having a cigarette in her locker in Shawano Community Middle School in Shawano, Wis. It was also the day Timijane committed suicide.
Louisiana: Pregnant woman shot over cigarette. 18-year-old refused to stop smoking. One local man took matters into his own hands early Friday when, according to police, he shot an expectant mother who refused to put out her cigarette.
New York: A 25-year-old Bronx man, whose name was withheld, was shot at 1304 Miriam Ave. in another turf war.
New York: Desmond Jordan, 34, was shot twice allegedly by William Giddens, 45, last May 17 in front of 24 Humboldt St. in yet another battle.
Colorado: Bar Owner Blames Smoking Ban For Rape. A Pueblo bar owner says the smoking ban that forced his female employee outside is directly responsible for her rape.
PA: Smokers Raped.Reward posted in rape. cases. Two Camden businesses are offering $25,000 for convictions in recent attacks. A woman working at a shop near Sixth and Cooper Streets was robbed and raped Thursday morning by a man who followed her into the store after she had taken a cigarette break.
Texas: Date Rape Pill Put in Drink, While Going Outside for Cigarette. Maria says she and two other friends stepped outside to smoke a cigarette. She says it was during that time that someone spiked her drink.
Texas: Smoker Violence. Two Everman police officers who asked a man and woman who were smoking to leave a high school football game Friday night ended up in a violent melee as dozens of young people converged on the scene.
Ireland: Three men had jaws broken as they smoked outside pubs in Sligo, Kilkenny and Dublin.
UK: Teen gang beat man after he refused to give them a cigarette. Police say the victim, believed to be in his 40's, was left with a suspected fractured eye socket and cuts and bruises all over his body.
Ireland: Hotel worker assaulted after stopping smoker. Gardaí have begun an investigation into an alleged disturbance at a Limerick hotel, resulting from the smoking ban. A worker at the hotel is believed to have been assaulted when he asked a member of the public to stop smoking at closing time. Gardaí were called but the culprit had fled.
Canada: On July 28,2004, a 57-year-old Mac's Milk clerk in the Davisville area was stabbed several times in the chest — for cash and cigarettes. On Tuesday, at another Mac's Milk in Don Mills, a clerk was pistol-whipped and locked in a freezer, again for cash and cigarettes.
Massachusetts: Melissa Pierce and Angela Aiello, after leaving the bar to smoke, were struck in the heads with a metal pipe. Richard Jervah of Lynn was pushed through a plate glass window. Arthur Brestovitsky was stabbed in the chest, face, and arm.
Pennsylvania: Pittsburgh. A clerk in the Giant Eagle on Route 30 was assaulted Thursday by robbers who tried to make off with two cartons of cigarettes.
Maine: Smoking privileges have become a volatile issue at Augusta Mental Health Institute, where violence flared up recently after patients demanded more opportunities to smoke. Four AMHI employees went to a hospital after being injured May 4 in a scuffle that they said was triggered by a forensic patient's demand to smoke more and be left alone while smoking.
UK: A hospital is to relax its strict ban on smoking after patients and relatives flouted the rules, causing 11 fires last year.
Australia: An 11-year-old boy was burned, attackers stubbing a cigarette on his stomach for commenting on the dangers of smoking.
Canada: An inmate was stabbed during a prison riot over smoking bans in a jail at Renous, New Brunswick.
Florida: Father Stabs Son Over Cigarette. Family members, including Anderson's mother and other children, were in the vehicle at the time.
Alabama: Smoker Attacked. He was standing in a parking lot, smoking a cigarette when he was attacked.
Canada: Man dies in smoking area. The day after at PCVS: Shock and questions.
New Zealand: Woman Assaulted Upholding Ban. Three were charged with disorderly behaviour and a fourth with assaulting police and resisting arrest.
Ohio: Man killed over missing pack of cigarettes. Two Men Face Charges In Beating Death Of Homeless Man. Prosecutor: Death Was A Hate Crime.
Canada: Man Shot In Smoking Argument. A 39-year-old man asked his neighbour not to smoke in the hallway. He was shot in the leg below the knee.
Florida: Smoker Attacked & Raped. The attacker dragged the victim upstairs and threatened to kill her if she called police.
Massachusetts: Smoking Teen Shot. He was shot at least five times while smoking a cigarette in front of 113 Green St.
New Hampshire: Clerk Attacked Over Cigar. A customer, irate at the cost of a cigar, hit a 7-Eleven store clerk in the face with a metal display rack Monday night, seriously injuring him, police said. "His face is totally destroyed," she said. Thapa said both his upper and lower lips were split, requiring stitches, and two front teeth were knocked out in the assault.
New Zealand: Abduction And Rape Of Smoking Woman. The incident proved people would be more vulnerable if they had to go outside and smoke, something Prime Minister Helen Clark had not thought of, he said.
More Ban Damage:
New York. Officer accused of hitting smoking teen.
California. Two police cadets forced to eat tobacco.
Tennessee. Couple sue over police assault from cigarette incident.
Virginia. Series of tobacco product tampering resulting in burn injuries.
New York. 60 year old man beaten unconscious for smoking.
Illinois. Assault and battery of a woman who was eight months pregnant.
California. Woman tortured her daughter over cigarettes.
Violence against persons who smoke is a direct result of federal and state actions to aggressively promote intolerance against a "target group" in order to achieve government tax and mandate policy objectives.
India: Three passengers threw a 24-year-old man out of a running train on December 26, 2004, after he protested against their smoking in the compartment.
Pennsylvania: Woman brutally assaulted when boyfriend caught her lying about smoking cigarettes. He later killed himself.
Italy: Restaurant owner dies over ban. A pizzeria owner in Turin died of a heart attack after a brawl with three inebriated clients who refused to stub out cigarettes.
More Ban Damage in the news.
Businesses Harmed by Smoking Bans: Anti-smoking organizations insist that bans are somehow good for people in hospitality businesses. This chart shows otherwise. These businesses have lost a significant portion of their business as a direct result of smoking bans. Many are closed. Many that are still open have told us they doubt they'll survive much longer. Other sources report Loss of Business.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 10 2005,6:52 pm
< Link to Businesses hurt by the Smoking ban >Let them show me a list of those business the ban helped
Posted by ICU812 on Mar. 11 2005,9:43 am
Old Cheech and Chong bit about smoking I always enjoyed listening to.| Quote |
| Announcer: The following is a testimonial from R. Zimmerman of the American Cancer Society. R. Zimmerman: Hey! This is R. Zimmerman from the American Cancer Society. (Wheeze). I used to smoke about 20 packs of cigarettes a day. (Wheeze). But since I lost one of my lungs, (wheeze), I've cut my smokin' in half. (Wheezing and labored breathing). |
Posted by Scurvy Dog on Mar. 11 2005,10:12 am
Geo -While it is a shame that a 13-year-old girl would committ suicide, I hardly think the author of the article you posted was justified in blaming her death on the anti-smoking crowd. That's a bit of a stretch.
Also, just because someone dies WHILE smoking doesn't mean they died FOR smoking.
My cousin was stabbed to death by a stranger who knocked on his door and asked for a cigarette. He gave the stranger a cigarette, the stranger stabbed him repeatedly, and my cousin died. The stranger is now serving 24 years for that cigarette. Who is at fault there?
Posted by cheeba on Mar. 11 2005,11:54 am
This is the absolute most idiotic stupid cockamamie senseless foolish preposterous thing Freeborn county could do for thier economy. After bragging about the top 10 whatchamajigger in the tribune the other day (which I laughed my pants off not thinking that could be possible but maybe in the OPPOSITE way).
Geo I recently quit smoking and I will come to your bar and help keep it alive if this damn thing goes through!
Posted by sick&tired on Mar. 11 2005,2:11 pm
I am not a smoker, but I do think they are taking this way too far. The Police seem to want to take one thing at a time away from us.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 11 2005,2:16 pm
No decision on bar owners' bid to block smoking bansA Hennepin County district court judge Friday delayed deciding whether to keep the county and the cities of Bloomington and Minneapolis from enacting smoking bans in restaurants and bars at the end of the month.
Instead, District Judge John Q. McShane scheduled a public hearing March 22 to listen to arguments from the bar and private club owners who filed suit Thursday to block the bans, and from the county and cities that enacted it.
The smoking ban is due to start March 31.
McShane is expected to rule whether to temporarily bar the county and cities from implementing the smoking restrictions, said Ryan Pacyga, the attorney representing the bar and club owners. Even if McShane denies the temporary injunction, a full trial would go forward to determine whether the smoking bans are legal, Pacyga said.
- Beth Silver
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 11 2005,2:29 pm
From: S1U2E3@aol.com Add to Address Book Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:15:53 EST
Subject: Re: (no subject)
To: geokarjos_2000@yahoo.com
Start by going to the minnesotansagainstsmokingbans.com web site.
1. This is not a health issue. Bars test 150 times below OSHA safety thresholds, and OSHA is in charge of workplace safety. OSHA has no regulations on SHS but has regulations for EVERY chemical in smoke.
If it was a health issue hotels would be included. If it was a health issue casinos would be included. Now the Indian Casinos will have another monopoly.
Not one study shows SHS to be statistically significant as a health risk. See the web site for a list of almost 100 of the studies. The sun, your cell phone and hairdryer have higher risk factors than SHS.
2. Read the constitution.
3. See the web site for the negative economic impact numbers, they are shocking.
4. The rights of the smoke haters end at my front door.
We filed suit against Hennepin County, Minneapolis and Bloomington yesterday to prevent our local bans from starting on March 31. They exceeded their authority in passing these bans. The state specifically excludes bars.
Good luck,
Sue Jeffers
Stub and Herb's
< http://www.stubandherbs.citysearch.com/ >
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 11 2005,2:41 pm
PUTTING THE PRESSURE ON THE HOSPITALITY INDUSTRYMost of the hospitality industry is friendly to smokers. However, based on the scientific frauds about the "dangers" of secondhand smoke exposure, local or national laws and ordinances are intruding in the hospitality industry in order to force it to create an environment hostile to smokers.
Since the right of the business owner to choose an either smoking or nonsmoking environment for his place of business is denied by both anti-tobacco cartel and state (often one and the same), it is important that smokers do not patronize hospitality establishments where smoking is forbidden, and that includes restaurants and pubs. It is important to keep this up: the government is counting on the fact that you will get tired, and you'll "get used to" the the unreasonable restrictions imposed on you. You must be prepared to keep the boycott up indefinitely. The message that economic devastation is the consequence of smoking bans must be steady, loud, and clear. Smokers have an immense economic power, more than sufficient to defeat anti-tobacco. It is time to put that power to work.
It is sad that hospitality industry operators have become the unwilling battleground between fascism and freedom, and we feel very sorry for them all. But certainly, they cannot blame us for having started it.
If the hospitality industry in your area is fighting a smoking ban, actively support it by letter, phone, and in person, and let them know that you will continue to do so for as long as they will defend your rights. But they also have to understand that you will be forced to change your attitude in case of defeat.
If your municipality is close to another municipality that allows smoking in restaurants and pubs, go where you can smoke even if it means walking or driving.
If the local or state government forbids smoking in hospitality outlets, refrain from using the hospitality industry as much as possible. You will be surprised how much money you will save by cooking your own food, or, in emergency, buying it from a take-out and consuming it at home. By the same token, a six-pack consumed at home with friends while watching the game is surprisingly much more enjoyable than in a pub with noise, confusion, and smoking prohibition to boot. And nothing beats an elegant dinner party that starts off with cocktails, cigarettes, and a selection of everyone's favorite music on the stereo. Let's use smoking prohibition as an excuse to revive the pleasures of private social life that are too often neglected in our busy culture. Turn your home into an occasional "smoke-easy" and encourage your friends to return the favor! How about a "Prohibition-era" theme party...?
Also, remember that fewer sales for the hospitality industry means less tax revenue for the government that is infringing on your rights, and on the rights of the hospitality industry. If it feels the effects of this loss, the state will be forced to raise other taxes. This will contribute to a decrease in the popularity of the sitting government, and politicians are very sensitive to that.
If an establishment has decided to ignore the totalitarian anti-smoking laws, and it accommodates smokers, let us remember that it takes courage to do so. Absurd penalties are often imposed on operators for this kind of "offense" -- as absurd and unfair as the anti-smoking laws themselves. Praise the owner(s), keep patronizing the local, refer it to your smoking friends. If the owner is hit by the health police, it would be a good idea to promote the idea of pooling the money for the fine with other smoking patrons as a sign of appreciation for the establishment's courage to stand up for freedom.
In areas where smoking bans are enforced, practicing and encouraging civil disobedience is essential.
For those who have some time available, some active action would not hurt. For example, here is a tested method that puts the pressure on. Call a restaurant, hotel, pub, etc. that you know does not allow smoking. Say that you have a large party of people, and that their establishment has been chosen. Discuss the details. Last request: "we want the smoking section, please." At the negative answer, just tell them to forget the whole thing. If they say that they cannot oblige because of municipal ordinance or state law, then ask if they are willing to accommodate you, anyway. The answer will be no, especially on the phone, for fear of a fishing expedition by the anti-tobacco cartel. Thus, "no deal, thanks."
This kind of psychological pressure, while it may not yield any immediate result, will keep reminding the operators of the size of the business lost to the cartel's prevarication, and that will turn into political pressure at the first opportunity.
Finally, in cases where you are are properly accommodated as a smoker, tip well and make it clear that you have done so because you were welcomed as a smoking customer.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 11 2005,2:54 pm
Environmental Health Dept. of St. Louis Park, MN tests Prove secondhand smoke in bars & restaurants is 150 times safer/lower than OSHA regulations. Proper ventilation systems do work, and tests proved it, does that mean that all odor is removed? Of course not, but odor which may be offensive is not a killer, nor is it a public health hazard.
The OSHA safe PEL (Permissible Exposure Limit) for airborne nicotine is 0.5 milligrams/ cu. M or expressed in decimal form 0.0005 g/cu. M.. The city of St. Louis Park’s Environmental Health Dept. (MN) first tested Q1 2004 all it’s bars & restaurants for nicotine in milligrams / cu. M, and results came in at 0 milligrams /cu. M., no health hazard.
So what they did next is indicative of what anti-smoking activists have always done to try to defend the indefensible; they lowered the bar. They decided to re-test Q3 2004 nicotine in micrograms / cu. M, (measure in concentrations 1000 times smaller) and received new test results ranging from 1-32 micrograms(ug)/cu. M. with the median result of 3.3ug /cu. M; as a decimal it is expressed as 0.000003.3 g/ cu. M. In other words the tested air quality for nicotine in bars & restaurants in St. Louis Park Minnesota was 150 times safer than OSHA guidelines. (the second hand smoke in St. Louis Park, MN. bars & restaurants is of course no different than other bars & restaurants around the country)
One might ask why other states banned smoking if the readings are so insignificant, after all the air quality with regard to nicotine in the median bar / restaurant in St. Louis Park was 150 times safer/lower than what OSHA's PEL on nicotine allows. The answer….. no other environmental health department ever tested, (or publicized) they simply believed the rhetoric and feelings spouted by the usual suspects. In fact once I caught wind of the testing going on in St. Louis Park I started to provide that information to Minneapolis, St. Paul, & Bloomington city councils; only to get an angry phone call from a St. Louis Park Environmental Health Dept. official demanding I cease & desist.
Organizations such as the American Lung Assoc., MPAAT , and numerous such organizations with no proof, mind you, of any actual conclusive facts; but many, many $$$$ to throw at government councils & commissions, have until now, had greater influence on politicians.
After meeting with the city engineers in Eden Prairie, MN. a couple of years back and explaining the filtration method that our Smokeeter brand electro-static precipitator (ESP) systems worked on, they decided against a smoking ban. Smokeeter ESP systems with odor reducing carbon modules remove 99% harmful airborne particulate to 0.01 micron particle size, fiber filter air cleaners on the other hand, are only effective to 0.3 microns. Stanford Research Institute measured tobacco smoke and found that it’s make-up is particle sizes ranging from 0.5 microns – 0.01 microns i.e. It will flow thru fiber filters like water, Smokeeter brand ESP therefore, is the ideal tobacco smoke removal filtration system.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 11 2005,2:59 pm
Smoking bans force you to hang a sign and tell your patrons there is no smoking.They DO NOT force you to enforce the law.
NY is doing it and so can you!
Florida Judge Agrees!
Administrative Judge Michael Parrish notes that there is no legal requirement for a bar owner to take ''specific action'' when someone is smoking in the bar.
Please note: This makes all smoking bans illegal unless your State or town wants to train you, supply liability insurance, sign you on as police AND make it a law that anyone they want must be forced into police duty. Your 16 year old son washing dishes in a restaurant would have to go to the police academy because he may have to uphold the smoking ban law. Remove these un-enforceable laws from your books NOW to avoid law suits. Every worker has the right to sue you when hurt, your ban opens you up for liability.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 12 2005,12:19 pm
From: S1U2E3@aol.com Add to Address Book Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 12:25:33 EST
Subject: [minnesotasmokers] Update on Smoking Ban lawsuit!
Hi all,
As you all know by know we have filed suit against Hennepin County, Minneapolis, and Bloomington to prevent the implementation of the smoking bans set to begin March 31st. A hearing will be held on March 22.
I have been fielding call after call at my bar. Yesterday 51 people contacted me to talk about the lawsuit, 49 said thank you. Think of all the people who didn't call or couldn't reach me or who called one of the other places. A Hennepin County Commissioner said good job, a house representative called to say good job and asked me to testify about another related issue for him. One south Mpls Vets group is planning to bring as many as possible in uniform to fill the parking lot of the courthouse in support us at the hearing on the 22nd. Lets get the word out to all the private clubs to be there in uniform....who wants to start calling?
I have talked to several bar owners who apologized for their lack of action and money. They are now willing to help. Better late than never.
I have told these people to start writing letters to the senate and house reps because that battle is not over yet, not by a long shot. I have them writing Minneapolis, Bloomington and Hennepin County telling to repeal the ban or settle the suit, in our favor of course. I have some writing letters to the editors, especially the Pioneer Press and the smaller papers. They will print our side unlike the Tribune who won't.
After the hearing on March 22 we will begin a fund raising campaign to pay for the Supreme Court challenge that will be sure to follow. We will need approximately $100,000. So start thinking of ideas we can use to raise money.
I think we blew a big opportunity with the media the day after the lawsuit was filed. We should have been all over the press again. Instead we were buried in between ads for clean fresh air from the $600,000 media blitz the smoke haters have just begun. We need more media!!! Ideas anyone?
KSTP will be doing a live radio broadcast from Stub and Herb's on Wed. March 30 from 8-10. All are invited and we will be allowed to go on air with our intelligent and articulate comments. We hope to be celebrating the ruling, if not it will be the last big smoke out before the ban begins at 12:01.
That's my update...ideas, comments and money are all appreciated.
Sue Jeffers
Stub and Herb's
612-384-4374
Posted by keith on Mar. 12 2005,2:09 pm
[b]A Smoking Ban in Public Buildings would be great for Albert Lea, Bars, Restraunts and all Public Buildings!!! This would help cut down on the health risks. Smoking is not a right, it is a priviledge for those who want to kill and poison themselves, why should they be able to poison others around them??? I was a smoker for 13 years, and quiting was the best thing I could have ever done. When I moved from NY state to Salt Lake City Utah where smoking ban was the rule, it was a pleasure to go into restraunts and any public building without having to inhale other people's crude second hand smoke. That would be such a blessing here as well!!!
Posted by saw1970_97 on Mar. 12 2005,2:29 pm
After the smoking ban is enacted I hope we can start a ban on fat food. Far to many fat bastards stepping on my toes in crowded places.(Second hand pain?)
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 12 2005,2:46 pm
So you can ban smoking in a place you will never walk into and ruin businesses cost jobs and discriminate against 25 percent of the population. Great Idea.
Posted by ICU812 on Mar. 12 2005,3:09 pm
Ban smoking in all indoor public places except bars period.If you dont like the smoke in a bar than go to one that OFFERS no smoking.
Right now the only businesses that are fighting this ban are businesses that sling booze, and with good reason.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 12 2005,10:34 pm
From: Cantiloper@aol.com Add to Address Book Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 18:03:34 EST
Subject: Re: [minnesotasmokers] Update on Smoking Ban lawsuit!
In a message dated 3/12/2005 12:55:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, S1U2E3@aol.com writes:
We need more media!!! Ideas anyone?
Think about the possibility of using the study Dave and I have in this week's newsletter. It's "new news" for the media and you could give it a local spin by looking up your own state's numbers and projecting how much you would have lost if you'd done statewide ban like in Minnesota.
Also: I got a Philly reporter excited when I told him how all he'd heard about was bans succeeding when actually a lot are going in the other direction. He didn't believe me at first so I made a list. He's now going to lead off a major article next week with ban failures!
Here's the list I made up: covers just the 30 days that led up to the first Philly ban hearing:
Feb 7th, LaPorte Indiana City Council defeated a smoking ban proposal by a vote of 4-3 to a standing ovation from a packed chamber.
Feb 8th Virgian Senate defeated a restaurant smoking ban bill by a vote of 26 to 14.
Feb 11th, Washington State Supreme Court ruled that local health boards can't ban smoking in bars.
Feb 16th: Paris City Council noted that only 30 of its 12,452 bars, bistros, and brassiers have accepted a smoking ban request from the government.
February 17th, North Dakota's House of Representatives defearted a smoking ban bill by a vote of 47 to 45.
February 22nd Montana House of Representatives exempted bars and casinos from their state smoking ban rules by avote of 58 to 42.
February 22nd Braxton County Wext Virgina amended their smoking ban in order to allow bars and casinos continued smoking for at least the next two years.
February 23rd Indiana voted to scale back a wide smoking ban to one that simply requires family restaurants to have some nonsmoking sections.
Feb 27th, Peter Hain, the leader of the House of Commons in the UK declared that local pubs facing a ban in 2008 could seek exmptions through local councils.
March 2nd Minnesota House Commerce Committee killed a statewide resataurant smoking ban by a voice vote.
March 4th Wayne County Michigan just shelved a smoking ban proposal on March 4th after the United Auto Workers Union told them how strongly it was opposed by its working members.
Also on March 4th, the Burlington VT City Council decided to reconsider the ban on smoking in private bars and clubs after an outcry of complaints from the Elks and VFW Posts proved too powerful to ignore.
March 6th, the Maryland Heights Missouri City Council voted to oppose a ban for St. Louis County.
March 7th, Oak Park Illinois Village Board voted down a ban on smoking by a vote of 5 to 2.
And I *think* the below came from the newsletter site:
In addition to these local ban failures in the legislative system and the overturning of the state of Washtington's ban, there have been several other recent cases where courts have ruled bans to be illegal and/or unenforceable in the states of Massachusetts, New York, and Florida. The New York and Florida courts ruled that ""There is no clear statutory duty for the proprietor of an enclosed indoor workplace to take any specific action when patrons are seen smoking in such workplace."
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 12 2005,10:45 pm
< Cute Song >
Posted by Scurvy Dog on Mar. 14 2005,8:13 am
One time I was eating lunch at Chinese Tea House with a co-worker. Because we were both smokers, we were sitting in the smoking section. There was no ashtray on our table, so we asked the people at an adjacent table if we could borrow their ashtray (since they weren't using it). They gave it to us without question, but had a total fit as soon as we lit up. Apparently they thought they were in the non-smoking section, and went as far as to point to the sign on the kitchen door, which read "No Smoking In Kitchen" to support their point. (This was after we told them they were sitting in the smoking section.) One of them actually said "If I had known you were going to smoke, I wouldn't have given you the ashtray."I know this doesn't have anything to do with smoking bans, but I thought some of you might enjoy the story.
Have a good day.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 14 2005,4:35 pm
To: minnesotasmokers@yahoogroups.com From: "robert fenske"
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 07:31:35 -0600
Subject: RE: [minnesotasmokers] Update on Smoking Ban lawsuit!
My sincerest congratulations on your efforts. We talked to all the owners here in Rochester and asked them to protest our forthcoming ban. Only 3 would stand up and do it! Now they are all suffering.
Bob Fenske
Rochester, MN
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 17 2005,10:33 am
The manipulation of statistical formulas is no substitute for knowing what one is doing.--Hubert M. Blalock, Jr., Social Statistics
Five More Die In Smoking War:
Tennessee School Bus Driver Shot. A 14-year-old boy was charged with shooting a school bus driver to death as she drove her morning route yesterday. A relative of the driver said she had reported the boy a day earlier for using smokeless tobacco on the bus.
Illinois Smoker Falls To Death. Ian Honeycutt, 28, of Glenview, tumbled from a ninth-floor apartment, blown off a window sill by a gust of wind while smoking. His aunt asked him not to smoke inside, police sources said.
Canada Smoking Sailor Dies. Under the pitch-black skies of a new moon, Robert Leblanc stepped into a breezeway aboard HMCS Montreal to smoke a cigarette as the frigate steamed across the wintry Baltic Sea. He ended up overboard in fatally frigid waters. He is presumed drowned.
California Smoker Gunned Down. A gunman fatally shot a man outside a sports bar in unincorporated Hayward as the man took a cigarette break, authorities said Friday.
California smoker beaten to death. He refused to hand over a cigarette.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 17 2005,10:55 am
Vets sent to front lines in the smoking warsMarch. 13, 2005
JOE SOUCHERAY
There was news footage the other night of some of the fellows at the Bloomington VFW Post 1296. They were having a cold one at the bar and many of them were smoking cigarettes. In fact, while the video was cropped to mainly show the reporter talking about a proposed smoking ban by the cities of Bloomington and Minneapolis in concert with the whole of Hennepin County, you could see one of the Legion members in the background taking a drag on his heater.
And then another Legion member sidled up to the television reporter and showed him his pack of Marlboros, intending to convey the message that he had read the health warnings on the pack and clearly understood them.
Personally, I would not tell Legion members they could not smoke in their own clubs. For God's sake, they are Legion members, which means they were in the service, which means that many of them fired weapons in defense of the United States of America, which means that many of them were injured, which means …
Which means their right to smoke should trump some silly Minneapolis City Council member or the likes of Dave Thune in St. Paul and all the other anti-smoking zealots who have grown tiresome advertising their imagined virtue.
Now there is a lawsuit. The Legion clubs as well as Lyon's Pub and Stub & Herb's in Minneapolis have joined together to put a stop to Hennepin County's attempt to put them out of business with a smoking ban that is to take effect March 31. The Eagles and the Knights of Columbus are in there, too.
Sue Jeffers, who owns Stub & Herb's, has been tireless in fighting for the quaint belief that the rights of the anti-smoking zealots stop at her front door. It's her door. She is the one who pays the taxes and pays the employees.
Have you ever been in a Legion club? As far as I am concerned they have special status. Every once in while it does a nonmember good to drop in on one and maybe leave enough at the bar to cover a round. The thought of telling the veterans that they cannot smoke in their own club is outrageous.
These are Legion members! Get the hell out of their face!
The public's health is not affected by the smoking that takes place inside a Legion club. And if the members inside the Legion club want to smoke, that is their problem. The anti-smoking crowd just doesn't know when to quit, and not one of them has the guts to lead a national effort to ban tobacco.
Here is where these frauds break down. Most reasonable people would agree that tobacco would not be allowed to be sold in a pet supply store, much less at SuperAmerica. Most reasonable people agree tobacco is a killer. It just stands to reason that you shouldn't inhale something that's on fire. On that we are all agreed.
So ban it. Yes, it is a minor inconvenience to ban a perfectly legal product that is a significant measure of the economy. Too bad. The facts are not in dispute. Smoking cigarettes can kill you. These zealots should quit pestering some guy who fought in Desert Storm and instead get on a bus to Washington, D.C., and march up and down in front of the Capitol and call for a ban on tobacco.
But they don't do that, do they? Of course not. That would take gumption. These people don't have gumption. Scratch the patina of self-importance off an anti-smoking zealot and chances are you will find somebody who is not altruistic at all. They are simply worried about themselves.
How about this. Why don't you people stay home in your smoke-free house and that way you will never accidentally walk by a Legion club and smell smoke.
< http://www.twincities.com/ >
Posted by jimhanson on Mar. 17 2005,11:00 am
These sound more like "Darwin Awards"--"thinning the herd!| Quote |
| blown off a window sill |
| Quote |
| she had reported the boy a day earlier for using smokeless tobacco on the bus. |
| Quote |
| stepped into a breezeway aboard HMCS Montreal to smoke a cigarette as the frigate steamed across the wintry Baltic Sea. |
When having a cigarette threatens your life (immediately, not sometime in the future), perhaps it's time to quit. These are not vastly different than soldiers that felt they just had to light up in a war zone--dying for a cigarette.
I'm in favor of choice when it comes to smoking--but there's no kind alternative way to say it--these people were stupid!
Posted by sick&tired on Mar. 17 2005,11:44 am
I think we can honestly say that George has did his homework on this topic.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 17 2005,12:16 pm
Environmental Health Dept. of St. Louis Park, MN tests Prove secondhand smoke in bars & restaurants is 150 times safer/lower than OSHA regulations. Those results render any government argument that secondhand smoke is a public health issue, null & void once and for all.
0.0005g/cu. M. is the OSHA permissible exposure limit (PEL) of nicotine (secondhand smoke)
0.0000033g/cu. M is the actual measured median level of nicotine (secondhand smoke) by St. Louis Park Environmental Health Department
Comparing the SLP test results to the OSHA (PEL) gives us the fact that the secondhand smoke in our bars / restaurants is 150 times safer than OSHA regulations.
IE. secondhand smoke is not a public health issue! And people can take measures to avoid smoke by not frequenting private establishments which allow smoking.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 17 2005,12:23 pm
The OSHA safe PEL (Permissible Exposure Limit) for airborne nicotine is 0.5 milligrams/ cu. M or expressed in decimal form 0.0005 g/cu. M.. The city of St. Louis Park’s Environmental Health Dept. (MN) first tested Q1 2004 all it’s bars & restaurants for nicotine in milligrams / cu. M, and results came in at 0 milligrams /cu. M., no health hazard. So what they did next is indicative of what anti-smoking activists have always done to try to defend the indefensible; they lowered the bar. They decided to re-test Q3 2004 nicotine in micrograms / cu. M, (measure in concentrations 1000 times smaller) and received new test results ranging from 1-32 micrograms(ug)/cu. M. with the median result of 3.3ug /cu. M; as a decimal it is expressed as 0.000003.3 g/ cu. M. In other words the tested air quality for nicotine in bars & restaurants in St. Louis Park Minnesota was 150 times safer than OSHA guidelines.
(the second hand smoke in St. Louis Park, MN. bars & restaurants is of course no different than other bars & restaurants around the country or in any other country, for that matter)
One might ask why other states banned smoking if the readings are so insignificant, after all the air quality with regard to nicotine in the median bar / restaurant in St. Louis Park was 150 times safer / lower than what OSHA's PEL on nicotine allows. The answer….. no other environmental health department ever tested, (or publicized) they simply believed the rhetoric and feelings spouted by the usual suspects. In fact once I caught wind of the testing going on in St. Louis Park I started to provide that information to Minneapolis, St. Paul, & Bloomington city councils; only to get an angry phone call from a St. Louis Park Environmental Health Dept. official demanding I cease & desist. The explanation given was that a Bloomington city council member was unhappy about this information going public. (This council member was supportive of a ban at all costs).
Organizations such as the American Lung Assoc., MPAAT , and numerous such organizations with no proof, mind you, of any actual conclusive facts; but many, many $$$$ to throw at government councils & commissions, have until now, had greater influence on politicians.
After meeting with the city engineers in Eden Prairie, MN. a couple of years back and explaining the filtration method that our Smokeeter brand electro-static precipitator (ESP) systems worked on, they decided against a smoking ban. Smokeeter ESP systems with odor reducing carbon modules remove 99% harmful airborne particulate to 0.01 micron particle size, fiber filter air cleaners on the other hand, are only effective to 0.3 microns. Stanford Research Institute measured tobacco smoke and found that it’s make-up is particle sizes ranging from 0.5 microns – 0.01 microns i.e. It will flow thru fiber filters like water, Smokeeter brand ESP therefore, is the ideal tobacco smoke removal filtration system.
Posted by truckwriter94 on Mar. 17 2005,1:49 pm
I bet it really bugs certain people that I’m a heavy smoker and I’m all for the smoking ban. I will not smoke in my own house because my wife and kids breathe that air. We will not stay at any restaurant that smells of smoke. Once in a while, the wife and I will play pool at a bar and that’s about the only time I smoke in the same room as non-smokers. I feel guilty about it, but can’t help it when I’ve been drinking. I’m all for the ban. This town’s councils are always trying to make it a retirement town by killing off all the businesses, anyway. The main business in this town is selling alcohol to drunks, so the ban would pretty much shut this town down. I need some kind of incentive to quit smoking. Maybe this will help.
If this message is altered, I’ll send it to everyone’s personal mail.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 17 2005,2:11 pm
Everyone has a right to their own opinion and no one will alter your post. It is politically correct. However I agree as a smoker, a ban would probly stop many from smoking but we still need the money in our household the bar brings in to support our families. Hourly wages plus tips. Forget the Smokers or the nonsmokers patrons, my stance is Non- Customers do not tip at all. I have over 300 members of the "Freedom to choose committee" all in the city limits of Albert Lea. All of them signed up at Eddies Bars.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 17 2005,2:28 pm
Lawmaker eases off plan to trim smokers' welfare benefits March 17, 2005 WELFARE0318
A nonsmoking lawmaker who wanted to penalize welfare recipients for smoking backed off the toughest parts of his plan Thursday.
Rep. Marty Seifert, R-Marshall, said he'll drop provisions to cut income and raise medical copayments for smokers on public assistance and government health care programs. He aims to win Democrats' support with pilot programs helping pregnant welfare recipients quit smoking.
"I have to have something that passes,'' Seifert said after presenting his bill to the House Jobs and Economic Development Committee. "The penalties aren't going to pass.''
Democrats said the original bill — which would have required all Minnesota welfare recipients who smoked to participate in smoking cessation programs — was punitive.
"This bill could be labeled, `poor people are stupid,''' said Rep. Michael Nelson, DFL-Brooklyn Park. "What's next? Are we going to ask them if they wear their seat belt? Do you speed? I just have problems with this.''
Even the committee's chairman, Republican Rep. Bob Gunther, said penalizing smokers would be harsh. Gunther said quitting smoking was the hardest thing he ever did.
Seifert — who said he opposes a statewide smoking ban — said taxpayer dollars shouldn't be used for smoking because it leads to higher health care costs for the state. Originally, he had planned to test welfare recipients to verify whether they told the truth about smoking.
"Right now, if you get a cash check through general assistance or what have you, there's nothing to stop you from going to a grocery store and buying tobacco,'' he said. "It's not your money, it's the taxpayers' money.''
The House panel didn't vote on the proposal. Seifert said he plans to come back to the committee with a scaled-back plan that doesn't contain sanctions for smoking.
Two years ago, Gov. Tim Pawlenty tried to prohibit welfare recipients from using food stamps to buy junk food. The U.S. Department of Agriculture rejected the plan, saying it would stigmatize those who get food stamps.
Welfare rights advocates said the smoking restrictions would discriminate against the poor.
"They certainly aren't smoking to stick it to the Minnesota state government,'' said Linden Gawboy of the Minnesota Welfare Rights Coalition. "Smoking is an addiction.''
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 17 2005,2:34 pm
AARP Refuses To Print Medical Marijuana ArticleAsk the AARP to release their article on medical marijuana!
You may remember that the AARP announced this past October that it would be publishing a survey in it's magazine regarding senior citizens' support for the use of medical marijuana among senior citizens. The results of the survey were overwhelming. Among Americans 55 years or older, 72% supported the right of patients to use medical marijuana, and 55% said they would obtain marijuana for themselves or a loved one who needed it. For details visit:
< http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=6381 >
Further details of this important survey were scheduled to be released in an article appearing in last February's issue of AARP The Magazine. Yet, to date, no article has been published. According to media reports, the AARP decided not to publish the article primarily because of pressure from outside anti-drug and right wing media watchdog groups.
The survey's findings illustrate that medical marijuana is an important issue for older Americans, yet the AARP appears to be paying more attention to the concerns of anti-drug groups than those of it's own members. In an attempt to persuade the AARP to reverse their position, NORML has teamed with the Drug Policy Alliance in asking our supporters to write the AARP and ask that they publish the medical marijuana article (written by noted L.A. Times reporter Eric Bailey) as originally planned.
My personal view; one of the primary reasons I ascribe to the absurd staying power of marijuana prohibition is that most policy makers operate from a myth of consensus - that a majority of voters do not support major marijuana law reforms. With your help today, please help NORML shatter this freedom-stymieing "myth of consensus."
Please take two minutes to send a pre-written letter to AARP CEO Bill Novelli urging him to print the article and the results of the AARP's medical marijuana.
< http://capwiz.com/startri....7184456 >
MN Pentalties possession
< http://capwiz.com/startri....7184456 >
Posted by LardStacker on Mar. 17 2005,2:37 pm
We need more smokers, sooo I can get some of that Social Security money. 
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 21 2005,11:10 am
I was at conoco and Dr. Burns was there, a Young man was buying cigerettes and he stop the young man and said, " You know those things will kill you and take ten years off your life." The young man replied, " you mean the ten years I will spend in a wheel chair in a nursing home not knowing my own name? I think I'll smoke."
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 22 2005,6:28 pm
Todays paper in the letter to the editor was an attack by Dr. Ulrich the following is the reply I submitted.Anti-tobacco is not just a few non-smokers annoyed at the scent of smoke who are claiming space for themselves. As far as that goes, we believe that they are fully entitled to their non-smoking areas, and with some goodwill on both sides, and modern technology, this problem can easily and quickly be solved.
The anti-tobacco cartel and its operatives want you to believe that the cause is hopeless: "look around you: smoking bans everywhere. How can you possibly believe you can win? Come on, give up smoking, and come back into society, it's for the better -- and it's good for you!"
Smokers stand alone against the antis, and the dishonest state that supports them -- for now. But we are millions, and many non-smokers are getting sick and tired of the anti-tobacco propaganda. Business operators fight back. And the truth on the frauds of the cartel continues to emerge.
What is anti-tobacco?
• It is the belief that the state has the right and the duty to regulate whatever lifestyle choice the citizens make, when it concerns the so-called "health" matters. It follows that as long as we stick the health label on any issue, the state can claim virtually unlimited powers.
• It is the belief that scientific truth (the only reliable parameter available to future generations) can and must be silenced, or twisted to bend to the political nature of the issue at hand. In other words, science can and must become an instrument of politics.
• It is the belief that intolerance is to be instigated in children and adults when it serves a portrayed purpose of "health", and therefore it must be institutionalized into the fabrics of society.
• It is the belief that one segment of the population has greater moral values and legal rights than another, thus that segment is morally and legally entitled to legislate discriminatory regulations and laws against the other.
• It is the belief that the needs, desires and way of life of one segment of the population must prevail on the needs, desires and way of life of another, and this on the basis of majority. Thus the minority must conform, or suffer legal and social consequences.
• It is the belief that the offspring’s of the minority must be indoctrinated to the values of the majority, simply because the majority believes that it is the right thing to do. The opinion, values and dissent of the minority become irrelevant to the greater purpose established by the state.
• It is the belief that due process can and must be disregarded or modified when it fits a political agenda, regardless of the consequences in the future for the legal system, and future generations.
• It is the belief that any substance or behavior targeted as harmful, must be eliminated for a greater good established by the state, even if this means total disregard of civil liberties, human rights, scientific evidence, and due legal and political process.
• It is the belief that "the end justifies the means" when it comes to public health policies, and population behavior control.
In order to fight effectively, and not to waste time in useless efforts, we have therefore to accept -- and act on -- several realities, and proceed from the following assumptions:
• It is useless to argue with anti-tobacco operatives. In fact, they don't want to argue with you, and they dismiss you with whatever label they see fit to apply to you at the moment. Moreover, they will ridicule you by mentioning all their faulty science, while not conceding ANY ground to your scientific evidence, and arguments. That applies to virtually any organization or individual involved in the anti-smoking crusades.
• Anti-tobacco operatives bark a lot about the "conclusive evidence" of their corrupted science, but they actually are creating a smokescreen so that people do not hear what serious science really says, that is, the large majority of today's claims against primary and second hand smoke is a noisy fabrication or exaggeration. ANTI-TOBACCO OPERATIVES FEAR REAL SCIENCE, for it exposes for the most part their criminal agenda of deceit, and a widespread knowledge of that science would spell their political extermination.
• Appeals to due process, truthful information by the media, media responsibility to fair coverage, fair representation, civil liberties arguments, historical references, parental rights, as well as -- of course -- real science, will be totally ignored. At this stage, especially as far as North America goes, addressing the antis on those issues is simply a waste of time and emotional energy.
• The politician, the organization, and the professional who has exposed him/herself against tobacco in any form will never publicly retract his or her position, not even in front of the most pressing and conclusive evidence or argument, nor he/she will change policy. His/her career depends on it, therefore they will advocate that the force of the state -- or even physical force -- is to be used to repress/alter information, and the dissent of those who do not comply.
THE ANTI-TOBACCO CARTEL WILL NOT LET THIS FIGHT GO, for many members of the cartel are propelled by visceral hatred and fanaticism, and immense fortunes are at stake, as well as political careers and -- in many cases -- personal freedom. Many of the anti- tobacco political and scientific frauds are criminal offenses by the code of many countries, and the antis know that even better than the forces of freedom do. As their frauds get more and more exposed, it is to be expected that they will become more ferocious in order to accelerate the tobacco annihilation process before they run out of steam.
In last analysis, it comes down to this: THE HEALTH ESTABLISHMENT WANTS TO SHOW THE POPULATION WHO IS REALLY IN CHARGE. When scientific fabrications can no longer be sustained to justify social control, then it is just a matter of using straight repression. The health establishment is becoming the REAL POLITICAL POWER in several countries, while immense amounts of funds are continuously funneled into different areas of this cartel to support this or that political transaction.
Posted by The Game on Mar. 23 2005,2:39 pm
SMOKES SAVE LIFERAYBURN -- What started out as a late night nicotine craving ended yesterday morning with a man being pulled out of a burning pickup truck.
Brian Foster of North Avenue, Kittanning, was driving with two friends along Troy Hill Road just after 2 a.m. when they came upon debris on the roadway and a pickup truck off the side of the road.
When the trio, who made a late night cigarette run to a local store, stopped, they found 55-year-old Daniel Grover Smith of Kittanning, unconscious inside the cab of the heavily damaged truck.
Foster said he went over to the truck to see if there was anyone inside and found Smith unresponsive, still seat belted in the truck.
"I slapped him on the face a few times, trying to get him to come to, but he wasn't responding," he said. "I reached in and undid the seat belt and tried to pull him out but the door was stuck."
Foster said he made several attempts to get inside the 1998 Jeep truck to free Smith, all the while a fire in the engine compartment was growing in size quickly.
"The whole thing only took a couple of minutes, but the fire was getting really big," he said of his efforts to free Smith from the truck's cab. "At one point, the smoke was so thick, I couldn't even see him inside the truck."
According to state police, Smith had been traveling west on the road and for an unknown reason, lost control and struck a utility pole. The truck spun around and went another 20 feet before coming to rest on the side of the road.
Foster said while he was trying to free Smith, one of his passengers, Marsha Stewart was calling 911. Another passenger, Lori Shay also helped Foster pull the unresponsive Smith to safety.
Fire crews from Rayburn Township, Kittanning Hose Co. 6 and West Kittanning fire departments worked quickly to extinguish the flames, Foster said.
"The fire departments, ambulance and police were on scene really fast," he said. "They did a great job of putting the fire out and making sure they took good care of Mr. Smith."
Smith was flown by medical helicopter to UPMC Presbyterian in Pittsburgh. His condition was not being released by hospital officials.
It wasn't until later in the day yesterday when Foster said he realized that he actually knew the man he pulled to safety.
"Things just happened so fast that I never thought about it," he said. "Once I got home and sat down for a while, it dawned on me that I knew the guy."
Foster said Smith is a good, decent man who would do anything for anyone.
"I didn't do anything that I know he wouldn't have done for me," he said when asked if he thought his actions were heroic. "I did what I hope anyone would do to help save someone's life."
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 23 2005,3:44 pm
MN:Smoking ban foes await ruling.
A judge Tuesday promised quick action on a challenge to smoking bans
set to begin March 31 in Minneapolis, Bloomington and Hennepin County.
***************
MN Suit Update
Smoking ban foes await ruling
Anthony Lonetree, Star Tribune
March 23, 2005
A judge Tuesday promised quick action on a challenge to smoking bans
set to begin March 31 in Minneapolis, Bloomington and Hennepin County.
After a 70-minute-plus hearing, Hennepin County District Judge John
Q. McShane said he would act "expeditiously" on a temporary
restraining order sought by a coalition of bars and private clubs.
Ryan Pacyga, an attorney for the establishments, which include Stub &
Herb's in Minneapolis and VFW and American Legion posts in
Bloomington, said the state Legislature did not specifically
authorize local governments to enact more stringent anti-smoking
requirements than provided for under the Minnesota Clean Indoor Air
Act of 1975.
McShane noted, however, that the state attorney general's office has
issued an opinion that state law allows for tougher local measures.
Under state law, restaurants must designate at least 30 percent of
their space for nonsmoking patrons; bars that seat fewer than 50
people can allow smoking throughout their establishments.
A smoking ban also takes effect March 31 in Ramsey County, but it
allows establishments that make more than 50 percent of their income
from alcohol sales to seek exemptions.
During Tuesday's hearing, Bloomington City Attorney David Ornstein,
referring to the 1959 Platters hit "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes," said
that while at one time smoke evoked romance, it was clear today that
the need to reduce the public health dangers of second-hand smoke
outweighed any concern over potential business losses.
Pacyga said private clubs could be hit hard. VFW Post 1296 in
Bloomington could lose its bingo operator to another establishment
that allows smoking, erasing more than $100,000 in gambling revenues
and jeopardizing the club's future, he said.
Tuesday's hearing was attended by more than 40 people, many of them
veterans, but only attorneys for the clubs, cities and county spoke.
Posted by Replicant on Mar. 23 2005,3:52 pm
| Quote (The Game @ Mar. 23 2005,2:39,pm) |
| SMOKES SAVE LIFE RAYBURN -- What started out as a late night nicotine craving ended yesterday morning with a man being pulled out of a burning pickup truck. |
Smokes save life huh?
Check this story out...
< http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,148397,00.html >
Smoking Can Kill You
Tuesday, February 22, 2005
A San Francisco man almost died Thursday when the lit cigarette he flicked out his car window blew back in, setting his vehicle ablaze.
Jonathan Fish, 20, was about to get off the Bay Bridge Thursday morning, police told the San Francisco Chronicle, when he chucked the ciggie from the window of his 2004 Ford Expedition.
The wind caught the butt and blew it back through the SUV's window, where it lit the back seat on fire.
Black smoke filled the car, and Fish, sensing he was about to be cooked, jumped out about 100 feet from the Harrison Street off-ramp.
He'd left the Expedition in neutral, and the flaming truck kept rolling, finally crashing into a guardrail just before the exit, where the $30,000 vehicle burnt down to the frame.
The California Highway Patrol put out the fire, which backed up traffic all the way to Oakland.
"We see people throwing cigarettes out the window all the time, but never a situation like this where it comes back in," said CHP Officer Shawn Chase. "This guy was lucky."
Fish's hair was singed, but he wasn't hurt. He might be a bit steamed, though — the CHP plans to fine him up to $1,000 for littering.
— Thanks to Out There reader Joe K. The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 24 2005,9:05 pm
Smoking bans are not legal. NY and FL judges have already agreed that bans are not enforceable. This makes all smoking bans illegal unless your State or town wants to train you, supply liability insurance, sign you on as police AND make it a law that anyone they want must be forced into police duty. Your 16-year-old son washing dishes in a restaurant would have to go to the police academy because he may have to uphold the smoking ban law. NOW to avoid lawsuits. Every worker has the right to sue you when hurt; your ban opens you up for liability. There are already lawsuits started.Granville, Newark, and Heath have adopted the Columbus,OH regulations, which as written, if passed, illegally enslave every business owner as police for them. Forces in Columbus, Cincinnati and other places are already preparing to fight in court. Why go through all of this for nothing? Why allow your State to be ripped apart at the seams over something that is not enforceable, and goes against the grain of private business ownership?
When people in a town are descended upon by the Anti-smokers whose only paid job is to spread their lies… most people don't take the time to research the situation, and tend to believe what they hear from people who appear smarter then them. It's only natural and I don't blame them. But by pointing out that you are not allowed to enslave citizens as your army, this situation can and will be rectified.
Thank you for helping to keep America free and uphold the memory of those wonderful brave Americans who fought and died to keep our freedom and way of life in tact for future generations. Any business owner who wants to make their own rules on their own property will. There will be enough; smoking, non-smoking, and accommodation of both in businesses, for the intelligent public to decide where they want to spend their money. Let freedom of choice dictate private business and private property. It is the American way.
Posted by FlyguyAL on Mar. 24 2005,9:29 pm
In response to the story Rep posted I have heard this story a number of times and I still dont understand why no one has questioned why the car was burned so bad. The guy was driving a 2004 ford. Does Ford have a problem or was he keeping his gas in the back seat?
Posted by Replicant on Mar. 24 2005,9:43 pm
It does make you wonder why more cars/trucks don't burn if the upholstery is that flammable. But I did see pictures of this vehicle when this story first hit, it really burned and I've never seen any suggestion that there was anything else flammable in the back seat. I had to dig to find the story again to post, didn't see anything different.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 29 2005,2:40 pm
Just 12 days from now the Libertarian Party of Minnesota will hosttheir convention Saturday, April 9th. If you haven't signed up yet do
it TODAY!
Activist Sue Jeffers will speak out on the smoking ban and how it has
effected her business. Author Ed Contoski will expose the "junk
science"
of second hand smoke. LP Presidential Candidate Michael Badnarik will
discuss the campaign and the future of the LP. Author James Bovard,
Lee Kurisko, Filmmaker Michael Wilson, Journalist Vin Suprynowicz and many
others will speak. Dinner is also included.
All of the information is at < http://www.lpmn.org. >
Posted by GEOKARJO on Mar. 30 2005,12:27 pm
MN:Anoka County.
Board puts smoking ban on back burner. Other issues seen as more
pressing.
March 27, 2005
BY MARY BAUER
Pioneer Press
So far, antismoking initiatives have stopped at the northern borders
of Ramsey and Hennepin counties.
The Anoka County Board has had little discussion on countywide bans
on smoking in restaurants, two county commissioners said. They've got
their hands full with more pressing issues, such as highway
congestion, a possible Vikings stadium and commuter rail, said
Commissioner Jim Kordiak, whose district covers Fridley and Columbia
Heights.
"Smoking doesn't rise to the significance of the scores of other
issues that demand our attention," he said.
While many restaurants in his district already ban smoking,
indicating that the option is popular, Kordiak said he gets the sense
that the general public is split on broader bans.
There have been "quiet rumblings," he said, among some people who sit
on county commissions, but no one has come forward with any formal
requests.
Even a county initiative that encourages cities to discourage smoking
in their parks has met a lukewarm response, he said. The program, a
collaboration between Youth First and Anoka County Community Health
and Environmental Services, asks cities to put up no-smoking signs at
parks and athletic fields, although compliance is voluntary.
Only four cities have signed up, Kordiak said, and interestingly, the
county hasn't addressed smoking in its own parks.
No cities in the county restrict smoking in restaurants. Officials
with several cities on the county's southern border say the subject
has never formally come up.
The Centerville City Council has never formally discussed such a ban,
said Council Member Tom Lee, but he senses most members would fight
one.
"I think it's a private company's decision whether they ban smoking
or not," said Lee, a former smoker who said he avoids restaurants
where the smoke is heavy.
He said he sympathizes with workers subjected to smoke, but added
that people who take jobs in bars or restaurants "have to expect to
be around cigarette smoke."
Posted by GEOKARJO on Apr. 01 2005,1:55 pm
Happy Hour at Stub and Herb's- Day one of the smoking ban.30 of my 35 customers were smoke haters. This particular group of smoke haters told us they were from the American Lung Association and the Minnesota Department of Health. They ate half price appetizers and toasted the fresh air in the bar with their ice tea and water. One slipped my bartender a note saying "even if Stub and Herb's goes out of business, God will take care of him." My bartender received a dollar tip and wants to quit.
Half of our regular Thursday lunch customers didn't come in for lunch and our band informed us they will be looking at St. Paul bars to play at. (see channel 9 news)
Sue Jeffers
Stub and Herb's
612-384-4384
Posted by GEOKARJO on Apr. 01 2005,2:03 pm
One Mans View Notice he is a non-smoker| Quote |
| FREEDOM - UP IN SMOKE. So the smoking ban is taking effect March 31 in Minneapolis. But is this really about smoking, or is it about politicians taking more of your freedoms? Couldn't people decide this peacefully by going to non-smoking restaurants rather than use legislation to put out someone's cigar? This legislation was decided by a handful of politicians and now it's law. If I don't like something on television I change the channel. If I don't like a price of something I'll shop around. If I don't like a noisy bar I will leave. In the end I make all the decisions about my life whether it's smart or stupid. But why should I care about the smoking ban when I don't smoke? Well because government can begin to regulate more things which costs more money and police resources. What's next? Music? Will there be some people that say we should outlaw loud rock music or top 40 club music because it floods the building with loud noise pollution that can damage our ears? And what about the employees? How will they will be able to work with all that noise and damage to their ears? Of course I am being ridiculous, but the smoking ban is ridiculous in the "land of the free", where we are supposed to make decisions, not politicians. If we do not like smoke, go somewhere where it's privately banned. Hundreds of restaurants already privately banned smoking, but the smoke-nazis had to go further and tell people what they can and can't do with their bodies on private property. I guess anything is political now. Politicians can regulate the amount of water we can flush down our toilets, who can use a leaf blower, who we can and cannot marry, what professional baseball is doing with steroids, what casinos to build, or whatever, and this is your money. Almost half of your paycheck goes to the government to pay for these grand studies or more regulations. How free are we really? I vote libertarian to send a clear message that I want freedom in all aspects of life. It doesn't mean I have freedom to smoke anywhere I damn well please. If a restaurant doesn't allow it, then they should have the right to kick out a smoker so they can please their non-smoking customers. FREEDOM HAS TO GO BOTH WAYS. I've been a non-smoker all my life and don't like the congested bars with smoke and have even written speeches on the topic of the dangers of smoking, because I believe there are some real dangers. But I make a conscious decision to be at a smoky bar. No one put a gun to my head and said to breathe in the smoke. I'm an adult and know where I am and what's going on. But when government uses their police state to enforce these rules and regulations there are fines or imprisonment forced by a gun. Our police could be fighting real crimes like robbery, rape, or murder, but instead we have to bust those troublesome smokers. When is it enough? If you want to hear people who believe in freedom including private property rights come to the Libertarian Party of Minnesota Convention Saturday, April 9. You do not need to be a member to join us. If you are interested in going to the convention in the morning it's just $20 or $65 for the whole day. 2004 Libertarian Presidential Candidate Michael Badnarik and a dozen others will be speaking. |
Posted by Botto 82 on Apr. 01 2005,5:10 pm
| Quote |
| A San Francisco man almost died Thursday when the lit cigarette he flicked out his car window blew back in, setting his vehicle ablaze. |
I never do this. Instead, the center console awash in ash dust.
Getting into the habit of throwing lit cigarettes out of moving vehicles around here is not a very good idea. Yet I can't help but wonder just a little whether or not this could figure into a future argument for a ban on smoking in cars. Wildfires that consume thousands of acres and millions of dollars in real estate aren't exactly doing anyones respiratory system any good. Factor in the millions in insurance settlements, and it looks possible.
A reference was made a bit back regarding dirty air equated to a one hundred-plus decibel rock band, as far as health risks go. Having worked a number of loud and destructive military doo-dads, I can lend creedence to this argument right now. All we need is a lawyer...
Think of it - acoustically-friendly fireworks displays on Independence Day celebration, Harleys with stock pipes and mufflers, O What A Beautiful World.
Pardon me, I have some musical merchandice to go unload...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Apr. 08 2005,12:08 am
History of the Anti Smoking Campaign< Smoke Free Colalition History (Their Beginnings) >
Posted by GEOKARJO on Apr. 11 2005,10:31 am
MN:Police won't enforce ban.
Plymouth Police Chief Mike Goldstein told the Plymouth City Council
March 29.
***************
Enforcing smoking ban up to social services
By Sally Thompson
Sun Newspapers
4/7/2005
Hennepin County's smoking ban went into effect March 31 and
enforcement is up to Hennepin County Social Services, Plymouth Police
Chief Mike Goldstein told the Plymouth City Council March 29.
No smoking is allowed in any indoor establishment that serves food,
including bars, he said.
If you are in a place serving food and someone is smoking, you should
notify the manager. It is up to the manager to get the person to put
the cigarette or cigar out or ask them to leave, Goldstein said.
If the person breaking the smoking ban does not leave at the
manager's request, the manager may then call the police, who can
charge the person with trespassing, he said.
"We have no authority to enforce the smoking ban," Goldstein said.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Apr. 11 2005,12:59 pm
The latest update:The first week of the Hennepin County, Minneapolis and Bloomington smoking ban has already proved what bar owners have said from the beginning. Food sales are OK, liquor sales are down. Smoking customers are very angry or they simply behave like sheep as they troop outside to smoke Nearby cities and counties are reporting record high sales.
Litter, vandalism and noise are already becoming a problem across the city and county. The first letter to the editor was printed yesterday saying our city was now a giant ashtray, please clean it up. Are you listening bar owners, an outdoor ban will be coming next!!! Bar sales are still the number one concern. A NE landmark lost a banquet of 125 because the party could not smoke. A Bloomington bar owner received a e-mail from a council member pointing out what an immoral business the bar business was. The bar owner is too intimidated to show this to the press, he is afraid of retaliation. The same retaliation anyone who speaks out faces on many levels.
Several violent incidents have occurred. A bar owner in St. Paul spoke out publicly today warning women not to leave drink unattended while they go outside to have a cigarette. The drinks have been drugged. Another bar owner on West Bank reported an altercation with the smokers and local gang members that got out of hand. A downtown club had a patron violently assaulted after going outside for a smoke. Several bars reported drug and alcohol use while customers are outside. Some pathetic bar owners are happy to be down only 10 or 20%. The apathy and laziness of many bar owners is especially frustrating. As food sales remain the same or increase, liquor sales are down which of course, reflects in the bottom line. Many bar owners increased prices to attempt to make up for the lost sales. This will also help the smoke haters support the usual lie they tell saying revenues were not affected. The customers pay in more ways than dollars when local governments abuse their authority by passing unneeded regulations. A local Minneapolis developer took out a classified ad yesterday, the ad read: Money no object for best candidate. Design media and community campaign for city council elections. He is willing to spend $1 million dollars to elect a new city council. I'm in!
There has been lots of talk about compromising with
a 50-50 state wide ban for that elusive level playing field. Don't fall for it. Why would we want the entire states small businesses to suffer like we are, how many businesses have
to be damaged to stop this social and political agenda. This issue has nothing to do with SHS and everything to do with stopping the smoke haters who will never compromise. The smoke haters do not care
about our employees, do not care about personal and property rights and do not care about our customers. Call your city council and county commissioners now!
Sue Jeffers
Stub and Herb's
Posted by ALcitizen on Apr. 11 2005,1:13 pm
George, you sure spend a lot of time with this smoking ban.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Apr. 11 2005,2:32 pm
Maybe you are not aware I am the Chairperson of the Freeborn County Freedom of Choice Committee.We are a group 350 members stong.
Posted by ALcitizen on Apr. 11 2005,4:16 pm
No, I was not aware of that.
Posted by db21 on Apr. 11 2005,5:51 pm
We were in minneapolis on saturday and I would say the bars were busier than I have ever seen. Lots of people out smoking on the streets. The best thing was when I got in the shower the next morning. No nasty smoke smell coming from you hair. My clothes did not smell terrible. I think it was a great idea for them to go smoke free.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Apr. 11 2005,6:07 pm
db21 So your doing the books? And rebute the reports of the actual bar owners? What Bar do you own? It isn't about smoking or non smoking it is about property owners rights.
Posted by Botto 82 on Apr. 11 2005,6:13 pm
You see?There's the real deal. It wasn't a health hazard so much as it was a stinky situation for the diminishing ranks of the middle class.
I think the whole thing stinks, figuratively speaking, and this from someone who's a little fed up with all this government involvement in our lives, and at a time where I'm giving up the evil things.
Market forces should have decided this, anonymous newbie, whoever you are. This no-smoking thing might work for The Fine Line, but I'll bet it's trouble for some of the more neighborhood-esque dives up here...
Posted by db21 on Apr. 11 2005,8:03 pm
No i am not doing the books nor do I own a bar. i think there are plenty of other customers out there and will probably be more pleased customers.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Apr. 12 2005,10:39 am
WILLMAR, Minn. (AP) - Former Minneapolis FBI agent Coleen Rowley says the Patriot Act is useful, but it needs a system to combat infringements on civil liberties.Rowley spoke last night at an event sponsored by the Willmar League of Women Voters.
She compared today's fear of terrorism to "Red Scare" of the 1950s.
Rowley says some proposed bills on Capitol Hill would address issues in the Patriot Act. One of them -- the SAFE act -- would put limits on searches done by intelligence agencies.
Rowley gained attention in 2002 when she criticized the government's pre-September eleventh counterterrorism efforts. For her whistleblowing, Time magazine named her one of its Persons of the Year in 2002.
Posted by ALcitizen on Apr. 12 2005,11:23 am
I do have to agree, people's right are being ripped away one at a time, but really, this whole "non-smoking issue is getting old. I would also have to agree with db21, it would be nice arriving home, and not having to hang your jacket outside, and take a shower before you hit the bed.
Posted by ICU812 on Apr. 12 2005,2:31 pm
The radio statio I listen to has been playing a PSA for the past 2 days now stating that 30 min in a smoke filled room will cause you to have a heart attack, blood clots and one other thing.If this is true I expect within the next day or so I will be keeling over or hospitalized. If no one hears from me again you know what happened.
Posted by shaker on Apr. 12 2005,5:32 pm
I don' know where you go ALcitizen, but if its so bad that you have to put your jacket outside and shower--- well I guess that I just wouldn't go there, I don't understand people who bitch about smoke and then go to those places. We have enough gov. sticking there nose in our lives as it is. Whats next? Maybe overweight people? Medical studies show that overweight people cost us all money with there many sickness. Maybe we could have fat police to go along with the smoke police, they could watch the fast food places and pizza joints to see that your not eating to much. God help us.
Posted by Botto 82 on Apr. 13 2005,2:56 am
| Quote |
| She compared today's fear of terrorism to "Red Scare" of the 1950s. |
Another working comparison would be Hitler's rationale for the march into Poland, etc:
| Quote |
| But you can terrify people. The art of government now, the art of control as practiced by the current junta, is: Keep the people frightened. It's exactly what Adolf Hitler and his gang did. Keep them frightened: The Russians are coming. The Poles are killing Germans who live within the borders of Poland. The Czechs are doing the same thing in the Sudetenland. These are evil people. We must go after them. We must save our kin. |
Gore Vidal, in CityPages
Posted by ALcitizen on Apr. 13 2005,3:00 pm
Shaker, you have never been to Eddie's then. No offense George.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Apr. 13 2005,3:29 pm
None taken but is is spring now and the doors are open but when you got 60 or more people in there a woman with strong perfume or a man with stong aftershave bothers me more than the smoke
Posted by Liberal on Apr. 13 2005,4:16 pm
I can't stand the smell of perfume, but that's because the smell gives me a terrible headache, I don't have any idea why it does but my wife can't even use it in the house anymore because of the headaches I get, and I rarely go out to eat anymore because of it. I don't really care for the smell of cigarettes but at least that doesn't give me a headache.If they do get smoking banned do you think they could go after the blue haired old ladies that buy perfume by the gallon next?
Posted by shaker on Apr. 13 2005,10:43 pm
O yes, I've been to Eddies. the smoke will not bother Me, Like I say though, If the smoke bothers a person, very simple, don't go there, how hard is that?
Posted by OEF_Soldier on Apr. 14 2005,3:50 am
It's not an issue of government regulation here but one of OVER-regulation by our government. The choice of whether or not you want to go to a particular place is your inherent right. If it allows smoking inside then choose not to go there simple as that. Geo knows that I don't drink nor does my fiance' but that doesn't stop me from going down to Eddie's to see my friends. I smoke and personally my government needs to butt it's nose into other areas rather then on my right to smoke in a public establishment or not. That choice is not the governments to make. That choice belongs in the hands of the owner(s) of the establishment for which you wish to enter into. If an owner chooses not to allow smoking in their establishment then so be it. I may or may not go back to it. Either way it is MY choice as well as the establishments owner(s) and not the governments. I have gone to many restaraunts where I have had to sit in the non-smoking section because the people I am with don't smoke. I didn't complain. I will continue to make the choice as to where I wish to go and what places I will eat, drink or do whatever in. The government has no right to what I CHOOSE to do in that aspect. It is not the government's place to regulate this much of it's citizens lives. I choose to smoke and not to drink. Some of you choose to drink and not smoke. It is your choice to do so. Plenty of warnings about the evils of both drinking and smoking but citizens still choose to do one or the other or even both. Keep the government out of what it doesn't need to be involved in thats simple enough to do. Next thing you know they will be telling me when I can make love to the lil woman!!! 
Posted by ALcitizen on Apr. 14 2005,9:27 am
Shaker, I doubt I would stop going there just because of the smoke. I don't like the smell, but that bar has been that way for years, and probably always will, and I like everyone else just has to suffer through it.
Posted by carnation on Apr. 14 2005,2:00 pm
It is a choice, but those of us who are allergic to the smoke, have to choose not to go certain places, or pay the price. Like Jaxx for instance. I love their menu. The food is great, but there is just too much smoke. Oh, by the way, we are former smokers and truely do understand the addition and the pleasure of smoking. Glad we quit though. I figure in the 8 years we quit, we have saved around $20,000.
Posted by The Game on Apr. 14 2005,2:58 pm
Geo,Can Pat turn the place into a private club? Charge a yearly dues and still do all the civic things Eddies does. Can it then be or remain smoking? I'd pay.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Apr. 14 2005,3:37 pm
I don't think so.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Apr. 14 2005,11:59 pm
Sue,I am a chef / kitchen manager who was recently laid off because of forcasted revenue decreases due to the smoking ban. I have not only lost my right to enjoy a cigarette while having a drink, but I have also temporarily lost my livelyhood due to this unjust ban. I would like to share my story with as many legislators as I can. Could you send me any of their email addresses?
Thanks,
Cory Johnson
Sent To: minnesotasmokers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 11:29 AM
Hi All,
Every day I hear from more and more business owners telling me the problems they are experiencing thanks to the smoking ban. I have heard staff is quitting because of reduced hours and lost tips, assaults and drug and alcohol use while customers are out smoking have increased, and city streets are a mess. I have heard revenue losses in Bloomington, Minneapolis, and Hennepin County down anywhere from 13% to 65%. One VFW has already informed their city they will no longer be donating charitable gambling revenues to the city coffers. All the while, surrounding cities and counties report record sales.
Now that the first week of fun is over, business owners and staff are finally realizing how damaging these bans are. The blood, sweat, tears and money we have invested into our businesses and through no fault of our own has many wondering how long they will be able to hang on
Give me a call.
Sue Jeffers
Stu! b and Herb's
612-384-4374
Posted by GEOKARJO on Apr. 28 2005,11:34 am
Mpls. Bar Owners Say Ban Is Bad For BusinessApril 22, 2005
Minneapolis (WCCO) Some establishment owners are claiming a huge drop in business since Minneapolis snuffed out smoking three weeks ago.
The smoking ban went in effect March 31 at city bars, restaurants and bowling alleys, but claims of declining business have elected officials thinking about changing the law.
City Councilman Dean Zimmerman, co-sponsor of the city smoking ban, got an earful Wednesday at a meeting with about 40 Minneapolis establishment owners, including Gabby's owner Jeff Ormond.
"Everybody is seeing declined sales," Ormond said.
"We're down between 25 and 30 percent," one bar owner said.
"We were not prepared for this big chunk of our business to be bitten out of us," said another.
"We're the ones risking everything, and I'm very upset about it, and we've got to do something about it," another attendee said.
Zimmerman was willing to suggest the law could change.
"There certainly may be opportunity for doing the partial ban that would mimic what's happening in St. Paul," Zimmerman told those in attendance.
During Wednesday's lunch rush, there were plenty of open tables at Gabby's in northeast Minneapolis. The bar was practically empty, and owner Ormond was fuming.
"This is the worst -- what you're looking at -- the worst problem," Ormond said, indicating the empty barstools. "Our bar was always semi-full."
Ormond said business was down 26 percent since the ban went in effect.
"Our bartenders' tips are down 50 percent. People come in and have one drink and say 'Hi' and then 'Bye, thank you, gotta go to the bar where we can smoke.'"
Before the smoking ban, Ormond had six people serving drinks on a Saturday night. Ormond said he was cutting it to three, because he needed fewer people to serve the declining bar clientele.
In all, Ormond crossed 51 work shifts off his schedule, an amount equal to 10 full-time jobs.
The American Lung Association told WCCO-TV it wanted the city to give the smoking ban a full year. That way, the city could analyze sales receipts and gather hard data on whether businesses were actually hurting.
< http://wcco.com >
Posted by ICU812 on Apr. 28 2005,11:53 am
| Quote |
| The American Lung Association told WCCO-TV it wanted the city to give the smoking ban a full year. That way, the city could analyze sales receipts and gather hard data on whether businesses were actually hurting. |
Good give it year, but they(ALA) better be willing to subsidize each and every business that is seeing a drop in income.
Man, could you imaging having a business that paid the bills and left a little to put away each day then a few Do-Gooders turn it all around overnight.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Apr. 28 2005,12:12 pm
Police to examine possible smoking violation by comedianApril 13, 2005
Lincoln police said Wednesday they will look into a comedian's possible violation of Lincoln's smoking ban when he smoked a cigar throughout his act Friday night at the Pershing Center.
Lincoln voters approved a smoking ban in November banning smoking in most public places in Lincoln, including the Pershing Center. Since the ban began being enforced Jan. 1, a dozen people have been cited for violating it.
Texas comedian Ron White, who smokes a cigar during his "Drunk in Public" tour, apparently violated the ban during his show. City Attorney Dana Roper said there are no exemptions for theatrical performances, although there was in an earlier draft of the ordinance.
Assistant Police Chief Jim Peschong said he first learned of the possible violation on Wednesday. He said it's not fair to enforce the ban against bars and restaurants, and not White.
"We are going to look into it," he said.
People who violate the ban face up to a $100 fine for the first offense, as does the proprietors of the place in which they smoke. In this case, that would be the Pershing, which is owned by the city.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Apr. 28 2005,12:14 pm
Lincoln police will issue ticket for comedian's on-stage cigar April 15, 2005
By The Associated Press
The company that manages the city's Pershing Center will be cited by police after comedian Ron White violated the city's smoking ban during a performance last week. Police Chief Tom Casady said SMG of Philadelphia will get a $100 ticket.
"The law says you can't allow smoking," Casady said Cigars, scotch and Texas-tough talk are part of White's act. During the performance at the Pershing Center, a fan shouted out, asking what it was costing him to smoke the cigar at the center. "Nothin'," White replied. "I said if I can't smoke, I ain't comin."'
Casady said White will not be ticketed because "he's long gone."
Casady said one of his sergeants thought briefly about ticketing White during his act.
"But she said ‘No way was I going to give a ticket to a comedian on stage with a crowd of 8,000 people,' " Casady said.
Pershing Center Manager Tom Lorenz did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment.
Lorenz and City Attorney Dana Roper initially said the city's no-smoking ordinance had an exemption for theatrical performances. But after double-checking the ordinance, Roper said he was wrong: There was an exemption in a draft, but the exemption didn't make the final version.
Lorenz said earlier that smoking never came up when he booked White.
The title of White's tour, "Drunk in Public," refers to his being charged with public drunkenness after being booted from a bar.
There have been fewer than a dozen citations issued since the smoking ban went into effect in January, Casady said.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Apr. 28 2005,12:15 pm
Ron White Stands Up To The AntisComedian flips off the anti-smokers
- In newly prissy Lincoln Nebraska the audience at the Pershing Center were waiting with bated breath to see whether comedian Ron White would perform his act without smoking. The city's smoking ban prohibits all smoking inside the center, with no exemptions for performers, a definite crimp on White's chain-smoking, scotch drinking shtick.
Thunderous applause greeted White when he poured himself a drink and lit up a cigar.
"I said if I can't smoke, I ain't comin' And if you don't like it, the exits are there, there, there, … ."
No one exited but the city attorney was contacted who verified that White and broke the law and was subject to a fine. It's doubtful Lincoln will embarrass itself further by pursuing this scofflaw, which sends a positive message to the average Joe that victimless "crimes" must not be taken seriously.
Posted by FlyguyAL on Apr. 28 2005,12:41 pm
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ April 28 2005,12:15,pm) |
| Ron White Stands Up To The Antis |
Way to go Ron or as his blue collar comedy cohort would say way to "GET-R-DONE".
Posted by MADDOG on Apr. 28 2005,12:55 pm
You know who you are. you've given me he11 for more than this., but for the rest of us......Stay on top of things. I like it. but...
Fight for the right to smoke!
Posted by GEOKARJO on Apr. 28 2005,1:43 pm
Antis Target SchwarzeneggerAnti-Tobacco Activists Target Capitol Smoking Tent
Apr 20, 2005
Anti-smoking activists are taking aim at Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, specifically at a private courtyard at the state Capitol, where the governor has set up a tent to smoke cigars.
Right now, the smoking tent is legal, but it may not be much longer.
Currently, no one is allowed to smoke in the hallways or within 20 feet of the doors at the state Capitol, or any other public building in the state. Now, some legislators want to expand the smoke-free zone to include an area where the governor's office says he does some of his most important work.
While celebrating new statistics that show fewer than one in seven Californians are still lighting up, anti-smoking advocates Wednesday targeted one of the state's highest profile smokers.
Anti-Tobacco Advocates Celebrate Low Smoking Rates
Smoking opponents have long criticized Schwarzenegger for not only smoking cigars, but also appearing on the cover of Cigar Aficionado magazine.
"I think the fact that the governor is using state property to promote the use of a product that kills over 40,000 Californians is totally unacceptable," said American Lung Association spokesman Debra Kelley.
Shortly after the governor took office, he had a tent set up within an inner courtyard of the state Capitol, which is exempt from the state's current ban on smoking in public buildings because it does not lead outside and is normally off limits to the public.
Assemblyman Juan Vargas, D-San Diego, said he has seen the governor smoking because his office at the state Capitol overlooks the smoking tent. At a committee hearing Wednesday, Vargas was pushing a bill to outlaw the governor's smoking area and hundreds more such courtyards in all public buildings.
"The governor's smoking area is not a nuisance to me, not an annoyance to me, and that's why it's not aimed at the governor. I mean, there are many, many places like this around the state," Vargas said.
Assemblyman Dennis Mountjoy, R-Monrovia, accused Vargas of trying to make the entire state into a smoke-free zone.
"If Mr. Vargas wants to eliminate smoking in the state of California, then come up with the courage Mr. Vargas to bring that bill to the Assembly floor," Mountjoy said.
If the new smoking ban passes in the Legislature, it would need the governor's signature to become law. The governor's office told KCRA 3's David Bienick Wednesday that Schwarzenegger has not yet taken a position on the bill, but added that the smoking tent is an informal area where the governor can meet with people to discuss state business.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Apr. 28 2005,1:52 pm
California Smokers Use Prohibition Tactics to Get Around Ban June 09, 2001
By Claudia Cowan
SAN FRANCISCO — Back when liquor was outlawed during this country's Prohibition movement, Americans found clever ways to dodge police and have a drink in secrecy and safety.
Today, booze is legal — but in California restaurants and bars, cigarettes aren't. Three years ago, voters passed a ban to protect employees from second-hand smoke.
But many patrons are still lighting up at bars that secretly accommodate their habit.
"I think it's fair to say a lot of the bar owners have gone out of their way to avoid the law, to circumvent the law," said Christopher Arriola, assistant district attorney of Santa Clara County. "You do see some sort of what people might call Prohibition-era tactics."
While cops try to sniff out the worst offenders, in many cases they're butting up against organized opposition. Bartender phone trees warn each other of impending busts, powerful fans blow away tell-tale scents of "smokin' in the boys room" and tin cans double as ashtrays in case of an unexpected visit by police.
Smoker Ian Hughes said that if someone in one of those bars spots a squad car driving by, he or she will alert those puffing away — and everyone will stub out their cigarettes before they can be discovered.
While some bars are making a surreptitious end-run around the ban, others are finding mixed success in the courts, using a little-known provision in the law that allows their customers to light up.
Last week, for instance, a southern California bar won exemption from the ban because it has fewer than five employees.
Some venues get around the ban by providing smoking-only rooms.
"It's an OSHA law, so basically we kick out the employees and you're OK," said Tim Dale, general manager of Le Colonial.
Police say it's not OK when some bars comply and others don't. But until the smoking ban goes the way of Prohibition, hoppers who smoke and bars that welcome them will continue to be a perfect match
Posted by GEOKARJO on Apr. 30 2005,11:01 am
To: minnesotasmokers@yahoogroups.com From: "Samantha Phillipe"
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 12:12:38 -0000
Subject: [minnesotasmokers] Diary Of A Disaster Updated
< http://www.smokersclubinc.com/modules.php? >
name=News&file=article&sid=1334
Diary Of A Disaster
Updated:
April 29, 2005 After just one month of a smoking ban the bars and
restaurants in Minneapolis have proved the bar owners right and the
smoke haters lie. Business has not increased, our staff and customers
are not healthier and some businesses will not remain in business
much longer. The nonsmokers are not coming out and spending more
money, in fact they are leaving with their smoking friends to
surrounding cities and counties with no bans. Businesses in those
cities and counties continue to thank our foolish city council.
Revenue declines range from 10-65%. Businesses have cut staff and
hours, some businesses have laid off up to 25 employees. Businesses
that serve the hospitality industry have lost revenues as well. This
includes the beer and liquor companies, the pop companies, food
distributors, vending, charitable gaming organizations, and others
all report declining revenues in Minneapolis. We estimate the first
month has cost our city 614 jobs and over a million dollars in lost
revenues. And that estimate is low.
Our streets are a mess. Bars have put security staff outside to
monitor customers. We must keep the drinks inside and the smokers
outside. Noise, vandalism, assaults and drug use are on the increase.
Record numbers of bar and restaurant owners have requested permits
for patios, sidewalk cafes and tent parties. Of course you can no
longer smoke in the tents so all the bars order smaller size tents.
We knew the smoke haters were lying, now we have the proof but it
will take a lot of work to get the smoking ban ordinance overturned.
Today we had about 100 bar owners meet with yet another council
member...we won't give up. I wish these bar owners would have been
this involved BEFORE the smoking ban was passed and we might have
stopped it before we lost jobs, revenues and yes, businesses.
Posted by GEOKARJO on May 02 2005,12:41 pm
The Freeborn County Smoke free coalition is indeed in violation of the law.< SUMMARY OF LAW PERTAINING TO ORGANIZATIONS EXEMPT FROM
FEDERAL INCOME TAX UNDER SECTION 501©(3) OF THE INTERNAL
REVENUE CODE
Read Law >
Their money comes from the Tobbacco Settlement and the DARE program.
Posted by GEOKARJO on May 03 2005,10:56 am
Smoking ban creates unexpected dilemma Anthony Lonetree and Mary Lynn Smith, Star Tribune
May 2, 2005
In an unusual twist on metro-area smoking bans, a few Ramsey County eating and drinking spots are being forced to decide between going smoke-free or going liquor-free.
At least three White Bear Lake establishments received exemptions from the county smoking ban when they showed that more than half of their revenues come from liquor sales. But that put them in violation of a local liquor ordinance that requires them to sell more food than booze.
The dilemma leaves them with a choice: give up their smoking exemption or give up their liquor license.
It's a no-brainer, said Jim McArdle, part owner of JJ's Bierstube, who had hoped to keep attracting smokers to his bar.
"Honestly, it will be more prudent for me to keep my liquor license," he said. "I've been put into a Catch-22. I guess I'll go no-smoking."
The various smoking bans that took effect March 31 in Bloomington, Minneapolis, Golden Valley and Hennepin and Ramsey counties have created few other surprises. The hype has quieted. Proponents, as expected, say they are pleased. Opponents, as expected, say they want change.
Minneapolis bar and restaurant owners, frustrated by the prohibition on smoking in all bars and restaurants, are pushing for changes in line with the Ramsey County ban that prohibits smoking in restaurants but not in bars that primarily sell liquor.
About 40 owners, vendors and charitable gambling operators met recently in northeast Minneapolis to share reports about lost business and to try to persuade City Council Member Dean Zimmermann, who was in attendance, to back changes to the city's ordinance.
Statewide ban?
Zimmermann asked whether a statewide ban would help, but Jim Farrell, executive director of the Minnesota Licensed Beverage Association, responded that there was no appetite at the Legislature for bans as strict as those being enforced throughout Minneapolis and Hennepin County: "You cannot pass the buck up to the state," he said.
After the meeting, Zimmermann said he was continuing to mull a push for changes -- an aide was drafting a proposal, he said -- but he couldn't offer any promises.
On Friday, the bar owners and vendors went to City Hall for a closed meeting with Council Member Natalie Johnson Lee and left pondering their next move.
In Ramsey County, meanwhile, smoking foes hope eventually to push for a total ban.
"Right now it's just too early," said St. Paul City Council Member Dave Thune, who initiated a cascade of metro-area smoking bans but couldn't muster the votes for one in St. Paul. (Nonetheless, St. Paul falls under the Ramsey County ban.)
Ramsey County has about 1,400 bars, restaurants and private clubs. Of about 450 establishments that sell liquor, about one-third received exemptions from the smoking ban because they're a private club or a bowling alley or sell more liquor than food. The deadline for applying for an exemption was Saturday.
About 10 of those businesses exempt from the ban are creating separate smoking rooms. And seven establishments received provisional exemptions, saying they're making changes to increase liquor sales and meet the exemption criteria.
Jeanne Weigum, president of the Association for Nonsmokers-Minnesota, said she's disappointed by the changes some establishments will make to permit smoking.
"It's just unnecessary to go out of their way to create an unhealthy environment," Weigum said. "We need to get things settled and get people really used to [the bans], and then we can deal with extending them."
Easy enforcement
As of Thursday, the first four weeks of the new bans had passed without a single citation being written in Minneapolis -- or anywhere else in the Twin Cities area. Minneapolis' hot line, however, generated 51 calls, said Lori Olson, deputy director of environmental management, with 19 complaints logged against 12 establishments.
The result: 10 warning letters and four inspections.
One inspection, Olson said, revealed that a business was not displaying a smoking-ban sign, as required by ordinance, but no citation was written.
"At this point, we're just talking to folks," she said.
Not every caller, however, was of a mind to see businesses or smokers tagged.
Twenty-five complaints came from people criticizing the ban itself, Olson said, some received "live" while the people were out on the town. "Kind of amusing," actually, Olson said.
In Hennepin County, only two complaints have been received, said LuAnn Schmaus, county spokeswoman. They were reported the same day, about the same establishment and led to a written warning, plus an investigation that has yet to be completed, she said.
Bloomington has yet to receive any complaints about smoking in its bars and restaurants, said Petrona Lee, city environmental health manager. Golden Valley has gotten three complaints, one involving a report of people smoking too close to a restaurant entrance, Public Safety Director Bob Hernz said.
In Ramsey County, 19 complaints have been logged, most reporting smoking in prohibited locations. No citations have been issued, said Zack Hansen, head of the county's environmental health section. "We're meeting and talking with people because our only interest is bringing them into compliance."
Posted by Botto 82 on May 03 2005,11:32 am
The building I work in literally straddles the Hennepin/Ramsey county line. It's a good thing the employee entrance is on the east side of the building...
Posted by GEOKARJO on May 14 2005,10:47 am
From: "Samantha Phillipe" Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoogroups.com. Learn more
Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 15:41:39 -0000
Subject: [minnesotasmokers] Diary is updated!
< http://www.smokersclubinc.com/modules.php? >
name=News&file=article&sid=1334
Diary is updated!
After 6 weeks we have had 3 bars close their doors, more are barely
hanging on. Every single statement the smoke haters said has been
proven a lie. Bar owners have been proven right but no one seems to
care about the small business owner, lost revenues, and lost jobs.
Talking to a cab driver last night I asked him about the smoking ban.
He said when people get in his cab and ask to smoke he tells them: he
is not a bar, go ahead and smoke. EVERY SINGLE PERSON THAT HAS RIDDEN
IN HIS CAB TOLD HIM THEY DO NOT SUPPORT THE SMOKING BAN including
nonsmokers.
Bar owners in surrounding counties without a ban continue to do a
thriving business as do those exempted in the next county.
A doorman from a local nightclub was shot and killed on Thursday
night. The smokers outside made good witnesses and they chased the
killer who then jumped in the river. Police responded and pulled the
killer from the river and he was then jailed. Tragically, immediate
medical attention was not enough to save Mr. Walsh who had worked at
the bar for 10 years.
Bar owners are slowly getting organized. At the first meeting with
city council members we had 40 bar owners in attendance. The second
produced 100 bar owners. While council members are not receptive to
reviewing the issue, we finally have their attention. Bar owners are
learning to play the "game" and we don't like it much. We will begin
attending council meetings in mass until we can be heard before the
entire council.
Of course we have a few bar owners who continue to lie and say their
numbers are good. We all know better. We see the empty parking lots
and talk to their staff. ST-1's are public record, so they can lie
all they want but we can get the accurate figures.
It $ucks! But we aren't ready to quit yet.
Posted by shaker on May 14 2005,5:31 pm
This is really great. lets get a smokeing ban in all the bars and resturants, yea, good idea, Lets see how many people we can chase out of town. It just aint too far to Northwood.
Posted by Admin4 on May 18 2005,3:07 pm
Public HearingJune 21 in the large courtroom of the 1888 building.
We are now moving back to the courthouse starting on June 7 to make sure every thing works fine for the big public hearing. The old big courtroom is now the county boardroom.
Posted by GEOKARJO on May 19 2005,4:03 pm
< Click here: 05/19: MPAAT Awards Eleven Grants for Research and Community Secondhand Smoke Initiati >Warning to Minnesotans: the communities targeted for smoking bans in 2005 are listed in this article. They include St. Cloud, Counties of Goodhue (Red Wing), Ramsey, Dakota and Washington. MPAAT still wasting millions of dollars as they continue to lie to the public and scare them about SHS.
Want just one example? Vekich, MPAAT board chair, said "each year tobacco causes more than 5,600 deaths in Minnesota. The direct health care costs alone amount to almost $400. for every man, woman and child in Minnesota."
The American Cancer Society can't and won't justify the 3,000 lives they say are lost each year in the US, I would be very interested to see how MPAAT arrived at 5,600 deaths in Minnesota. $400 per resident in the state, just plain hog wash.
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/minnesotasmokers/ >
Posted by GEOKARJO on May 19 2005,4:18 pm
Huge Income Loss Name: Candy Westphal
Date Posted: Apr 8, 05 - 2:40 AM
Email: Roseangel23@aol.com
Message: Below is a copy of the e-mail I sent several of the Hennepin County Board of Commissioners regarding my Huge Income Loss. Please take notice. I am not the only one in this situation.
Dear Hennepin County Board of Commissioners,
I live alone in the city of Brooklyn Park and currently work as a bartender, waitress and part-time bar manager in the cities of Brooklyn Park, Crystal and Robbinsdale. I am a single person who has no children and I solely support myself with these three part-time jobs as I have been doing for the past 2 years. Some weeks I work in excess of 65 hours to support myself with no assistance.
Since 12:01 AM on March 30th, 2005 I have lost income of over $400.00. That is $400.00 in only 8 days. The small private clubs I work for (2 VFW's and 1 American Legion) have seen a dramatic decreases in business and as a result I have lost hard earned money. I am already worried about where my rent money will come from next month.
My patrons of all of these clubs have been so upset about this Zero Smoking Ban Policy that they have chosen either to stay at home and socialize, stay at the clubs for much shorter periods of time or have simply chosen to pool together their resources and cab it to Anoka County or Ramsey County where they can enjoy themselves. To top it off many of their nonsmoking friends have decided to join them in these ventures. Their opinions have been "this place is a tomb now, we are going where are friends are." Other comments have been, "What time is the funeral?". Today I served 9 people lunch and when I left there were 4 persons sitting at the bar. I was sent home early both Friday and Saturday Evening due to lack of business.
The club I work at in Brooklyn Park has seen a decreases in business at approx. 15% even though they have an outdoor patio. The club I work at in Crystal has seen a decreases in business at approx. 45%. The club I work for in Robbinsdale has seen a decreases in business at almost 50%. A note of thought is that Crystal VFW Gambling has already lost over $6000.00. That is $6000.00 less that will be put back into the community to support youth clubs, senior clubs, community events and little league events. Food and liquor sales are down at all the clubs that means less is ordered from the vendors. Sadly this will result in less taxes being paid to the cities, county and state.
This Zero Smoking Ban really must be rethought. I am not opposed to how it is being handled in Ramsey County because then the mom and pop places and private clubs would still stand a chance. Something must be done right away before the doors to these places will have to be closed and jobs will be lost, not to mention the taxes that will no longer go to your cities, county and state. I am seriously afraid I will be forced to move if this happens. I look forward to hearing from you.
Sincerely,
Candy Westphal
Roseangel23@aol.com
Posted by GEOKARJO on May 20 2005,1:46 pm
For years I donated time, money and talent to the Eagles Cancer Telethone 3 years ago smoking was banned in the Mayo Civic Center I didn't have a problem with that as could step outside the door and get my nic fix between my performances the last year I performed there was no smoking on the Civic Center Grounds. Needless to say I quit performing after that. Since the beginning of the event in 1954 more than 9 Million Dollars have been raised a report published in 1980 showed that smokers were the main contributors to the charity.Now should we ban smoking in Freeborn County the money raised at the Eagles Cancer telethone will surely decrease.
BUTT OUT.
FUNDRAISING/ DONATIONS TO CEASE
Coming together as a first-ever nationally formed alliance, business associations and citizens' rights groups who have had their private property rights and free will usurped, will no longer help fund the American Cancer Society, American Lung Association or the American Heart Association.
At issue is the charities' relentless pursuit of smoking bans in city and state legislatures all across the country -- ban legislation that the charities themselves very frequently help to write and then promote to the general public. Strongly noted too is that by using their tax-deductible donations for lobbying for legislation they are teetering on the edge of violating the IRS code for charitable organizations.
The ACS, for example, is currently sponsoring a radio and print blitz, urging New Jerseyans to phone their representatives demanding a local ban. And, according to their own press release, Chicago is next.
Contrary to reports pumped out by smoking ban proponents, these smoking bans decimate mom-n-pop businesses and are intended to make pariahs out of adults engaging in a legal behavior.
Clearly, businesses that hold fundraisers for, and citizens who donate to, these health organizations are giving to groups that then use that money to destroy and attack them.
"No more," says Audrey Silk, founder of NYC C.L.A.S.H. (Citizens Lobbying Against Smoker Harassment). "We will stop contributing to Big Nanny. Why do we want to donate to groups that are out to ruin our businesses and demean us as human beings?"
This misuse of funds -- funds that should be dedicated to more research and less "bureaucratic backwaters" -- is apparent to Smartmoney.com. In ranking the top 100 biggest charities in order of which "spends the public's money wisely" Smartmoney.com has the ACS coming in at #93.
Jim Avolt, a spokesman for an Ohio business group that's part of the alliance rates it even lower than that. He points out, "I feel the ACS, the ALA and the AHA should all lose their non-profit status. They were significant financial donors to the pro-ban forces at work in Toledo. And the irony of it was," Avolt continues, "they were using the same money we'd given them in donations and just handing it right over to our political opponents."
"What's more," Silk adds on behalf of furious smokers, "is that the ACS is also behind demands on state legislatures to make smokers pay more in taxes in order to legislatively control legal human behavior they don't approve of and to fund their increasingly ineffective programs. The states get millions of dollars a year through the Master Settlement Agreement -- a hidden tax already paid by smokers -- but because the states shortchange the ACS programs they want to shake us down for more!"
Incredibly, the ACS is behind taxation without representation when smokers are made to "pay up and get out."
This boycott will continue indefinitely, with more groups and private citizens expected to join in.
But it doesn't mean that members of the alliance won't continue to donate -- just not to those charities. There are thousands of worthy ones out there and they'll be the recipients of contributions instead. Charities like Make-A-Wish Foundation, Mary Crowley Medical Research Center, Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center and the Shriners Hospital for Children are just a few of the favorites, as are people in dire medical need in each of our own local areas.
The alliance agrees that cancer and heart disease research will not suffer by donating to other same goal charities -- and maybe the trampling of our country's treasured private property rights and the right to be left alone will subside.
Posted by ALcitizen on May 20 2005,3:18 pm
I support the smoking ban.
Posted by The Game on May 20 2005,4:16 pm
Why is THAT not a suprise.... LOL
Posted by ALcitizen on May 20 2005,4:31 pm
The Game must be another smoker 
Posted by GEOKARJO on May 20 2005,5:04 pm
So ALcitizen you support a ban that is going to finacially disprupt the tax base of the county, and city driving business to another community upset the wages of employees and their livelyhood. Charitable Gaming will suffer and so will wrestling, hockey and the other charities it represents.
The cities is the test grounds are you blind to the reports I have posted in just 6 weeks sales are down 35 to 50 percent people have lost jobs and four businesses have closed their doors.
In one months time I was able to get more than 350 signitures of people who crossed the threshold of eddies bar who do not support the ban but support the owners freedom to choose.
Free enterprize has worked in this country for hundreds of years.
Posted by ALcitizen on May 20 2005,6:48 pm
George, to each his own. I am not a smoker, and I don't care to come home smelling like smoke as if I am a smoker. Not everyone feels the same as you and your buddies at Eddies.
Posted by GEOKARJO on May 20 2005,7:34 pm
Simple solution if you don't like it, don't go. If smoking was banned at all the bars would you come into Eddies on a regular basis. Most likely not. Eddies is a nieghborhood bar with moral values. Monday - Saturday it is a workers bar. It is not a place you dress up to go to unless it is the only place you go and think you need to be better than the rest of us or just want to show off your new outfit. Besides when I get home the clothes come off and go in the laundery and I put clean ones on the next day I wear an old jacket I hang in the garage when I get home to air out and it is as fresh as it was washed. Then I step into the shower to wash the rest of the smell from my body. Simple solutions to simple problems.
Posted by ALcitizen on May 20 2005,8:16 pm
I've been there. I know you don't dress up to go in there. Again, to each his own.
Posted by FlyguyAL on May 20 2005,9:14 pm
To each his/her own right to smoke or not in public places. We all make choices.
Posted by GEOKARJO on May 20 2005,9:28 pm
Exactly! To each his own is what we ask. People who smoke have freedoms too. A right to assembly. A right to ownship of property. If everyone that walks into an establishment has a right to choose to be there or not. The door is open to anyone who wants to enter. A warning sign on the door of the establishment can warn of the activities occuring inside. Segragation in the name of public health is not freedom.You have heard the terms of false science being used in the information broadcasted by the smoke free group.
Cigarette smoke is 20 times higher in the blood stream of someone who works in a bar that does not smoke compared to the person who worked in a bar that did not allow smoking.
Ok scientific measurements are detrermined by parts per million.
Subject one works in the non smoking inviroment has 0 parts per million in the blood.
Subject two works in the smoking bar has 20 parts per million in the blood.
20
----------- a rather small amount that will be absorbed
1,000,000
There is a chart that explains more on this but you would not probly sit down and read the 127 page study in which is the same study that is being used by the smoke free people.
I have worked in research for 20 years, I have an understanding as well as any Doctor or Scientist of the exposer levels and to what level exposer does it create a risk or danger.
Do I want to subject my children or grandchildren to this?
No.
I will first choose to go to a non smoking section or non smoking cafe if I was to take my children.
I believe in property owners right and let the market determine the demand.
Posted by GEOKARJO on May 23 2005,9:33 am
MN:Minneapolis legal challenge.
The group, represented by attorney Randall Tigue, presented its case
to Hennepin County District Judge Charles Porter.
< http://www.smokersclubinc.com/modules.php? >
name=News&file=article&sid=1213
Read the first case history here.
Smoking ban: Lost sales are cited in 2nd legal challenge
May 21, 2005
A Minneapolis smoking ban that went into effect March 31 in bars,
restaurants and bowling alleys now is the subject of a second legal
challenge.
Six city bars and restaurants, including Jax Cafe, teamed this week
with the Northeast Minneapolis Lions Club to seek a temporary
restraining order halting enforcement of the ban.
The group, represented by attorney Randall Tigue, presented its case
Thursday to Hennepin County District Judge Charles Porter. He took
the matter under advisement.
The court filings detail the extent of their losses during April, the
ban's first month.
William Kozlak, of Jax Cafe, 1928 University Av. NE., said total
sales were down $64,942 compared with the same month a year ago.
Jeffrey Ormond, of Gabby's, 1900 NE. Marshall St., said that his
gross receipts had dropped 12.4 percent.
The lost business is hurting charitable gambling as well, said
Michael Kuduk of the Lions Club. He estimated revenue losses of about
25 percent.
Tigue argues that the lost gambling revenues are "damaging the public
interest" by reducing funds that could go to social service agencies.
The ordinance, the lawsuit contends, also jeopardizes public safety
as smokers and others congregate outdoors.
In March, Hennepin County District Judge John McShane rejected a
separate request filed by another group of bars and private clubs
seeking to postpone bans going into effect March 31 across Hennepin
County, including Minneapolis. That decision is being appealed.
Anthony Lonetree
Posted by Whiskero on May 23 2005,3:12 pm
This is what irritates me. Back in the 60's and 70's, there was a product on the market called Sweet 10. It was WONDERFUL!! It was an artificial sweetner; put it especially on your cold cereal and every bite was sweet; it was even put in some pop on the market. Then, low and behold! It was discovered that if a person drank 2 cases of pop with this in, every day for a year you may get cancer! Within a week, it was all taken off the shelves. You couldn't find it anywhere. It has been found out for many years now that smoking, or second hand smoke causes cancer. Is it off the market? No. I wish they would either get rid of the cigarettes completely (I know it would throw the economy of this country into a worse tizzy than it is now, but oh well...) or, if they are going to ban them from some of the establishments, why not every one of the businesses, in every county, in every state; that way no one can say they are losing business because people are going into a different area where they can sit inside and smoke. By the way, both my husband and myself quit smoking not quite 3 years ago. We were tired of throwing away our money and also stinking.
Posted by GEOKARJO on May 27 2005,11:24 pm
Anyone wanting to see some of the nasty background of MPAAT, just go to google and enter the three words (separated by spaces only):phelps rybak mpaat
and you'll find the expose done a few years ago along with some supportive materials.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Jun. 03 2005,1:46 pm
June 3, 2005 OK, we are about 2 months into the smoking ban. I would like to say again...the bar owners have clearly proven the
smoke haters are liars and the situation continues to get worse. In
Minneapolis, 29 businesses have closed, most attribute it mostly to
the smoking ban. 22 businesses have requested outdoor expansion
applications, all attributed to the smoking ban. 3 licenses have
requested upgrades, my bar is one of them, all cite the smoking ban.
I firmly believe if we had not added live music we would be near
closing our doors for good. One owner has laid off his entire kitchen
staff and he cooks from open to close. Another owner is bartending
open to close just to keep the doors open. A night club has reduced
hours to 4 nights per week and is offering free drinks, sometimes
until midnight just to lure customers.
Over the last 2 months the non smokers have not come out to spend
more money, in fact they follow their smoking friends to bars in
other cities and counties that allow smoking. Bars in counties with
partial bans, who do not qualify for waivers, report significant
happy hour and late night business losses, some close early. Why
bother opening for zero customers. The owners are very worried about
winter. One bar reported before he received his waiver he watched
customers of over 10 years walk over to the bar across the street to
drink and smoke. Long time established businesses report being empty
by 9:30, even on Saturday nights. Over and over you hear worried
owners and staff wondering how long they can hang on.
The smoke haters want ALL bar owners to suffer as they continue to
oppose partial bans and push for total bans. Nobody likes to sit in
an empty bar no matter how clean the air is. The irony of staff
leaving jobs, where due to loss of bussiness from the smoking bans,
to work in bars that allow smoking is missed by many.
Bloomington has announced a rally on Monday June 6, 2005 at 7 PM for
everyone to protest the smoking ban in their city. Bar business is
deviated and with in the next 30 days several more will close. Sworn
affidavits, describing unbelievable losses, from bar owners in both
lawsuits, as well as Bloomington losses will be presented. Private
clubs will announce hundreds of thousands of dollars once donated to
city organizations by will be stopped for lack of revenue. One
opponant of the smoking ban has just announced he will run for city
council and we are all firmly behind Him! Way to go Jim!!! I
personally will door knock for him.
Monday begins the appeal hearing for the first lawsuit filed. Even a
little hope keeps people going...it won't last for long if we can't
turn this around either legally or politically. It is very tough for
the little guy to win against city hall but we aren't done yet.
Sue Jeffers
Stub and Herb's
612-384-4374
Minnesotans Against Smoking Bans
Posted by GEOKARJO on Jun. 15 2005,4:41 pm
News Paper Reports Violation of IRS Code 501 © (3) and 501 © (4)| Quote |
| Smoke free draft 'well-designed' By Ann Austin, Tribune staff writer March 9th 2005 The ordinance took quite a while to complete. Action began about a year ago and the ordinance has developed slowly, with assistance from several legal offices including the Tobacco Project and the Freeborn County Attorney's Office. |
Tobacco Free Project under investigation for tax exempt status violation
< PDF Article >
| Quote |
| Phil Bartusek, co-chair of the coalition, spoke during the presentation. "People should have the freedom to enter a public place without having to encounter the effects of secondhand smoke," he said. "The ordinance does not prohibit smoking," he said. But it does detail that smoking is prohibited in public places and places of work and within 15 feet of entrances, exits, windows, and so on. |
Charities May Not Engage in Political Campaign Activities
Introduction of law and or ordinance by a tax exempt organization is prohibited by IRS regulation
Lobbying Activity From IRS Web Site
In general, no organization may qualify for section 501©(3) status if a substantial part of its activities is attempting to influence legislation (commonly known as lobbying). A 501©(3) organization may engage in some lobbying, but too much lobbying activity risks loss of tax-exempt status.
Legislation includes action by Congress, any state legislature, any local council, or similar governing body, with respect to acts, bills, resolutions, or similar items (such as legislative confirmation of appointive office), or by the public in referendum, ballot initiative, constitutional amendment, or similar procedure. It does not include actions by executive, judicial, or administrative bodies.
An organization will be regarded as attempting to influence legislation if it contacts, or urges the public to contact, members or employees of a legislative body for the purpose of proposing, supporting, or opposing legislation, or if the organization advocates the adoption or rejection of legislation.
Organizations may, however, involve themselves in issues of public policy without the activity being considered as lobbying. For example, organizations may conduct educational meetings, prepare and distribute educational materials, or otherwise consider public policy issues in an educational manner without jeopardizing their tax-exempt status.
Posted by DrBombay on Jun. 15 2005,6:06 pm
Geo; I noticed at the Courthouse, (Main Broadway entrance) smack-dab when you walk in there is a plastic holder on the glass containing "Smoke Free" propaganda. Shouldn't information on the otherside of the issue be provided for the public too? Just a thought!
Posted by GEOKARJO on Jun. 15 2005,6:08 pm
Yes it should I will have to look at it again.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Jun. 15 2005,6:19 pm
Ruling of the United States Supreme Court.[T]he dichotomy between personal liberties and property rights is a false one. Property does not have rights. People have rights. The right to enjoy property without unlawful deprivation, no less than the right to speak or the right to travel, is in truth, a ‘personal’ right, whether the ‘property’ in question be a welfare check, a home, a savings account or a business. In fact, a fundamental interdependence exists between the personal right to liberty and the personal right in property. Neither could have meaning without the other. That rights in property are basic civil rights has long been recognized.
The Human Rights Act, Minnesota's comprehensive civil rights law, declares that certain types of differential treatment are unfair discriminatory practices.
In Public Accommodations..Disabilities Discrimination
A place of business, entertainment, transportation or other privately operated facility denies its premises or services, or discriminates in the access or use of them.
Public facilities must provide reasonable accommodations to make their premises and services accessible to persons who have disabilities.
Public accommodations must permit the use of recognized service animals by persons who have disabilities.
American Disabilities Act Definition
Addiction to alcohol or drugs can, under some circumstances, be regarded as a disability under the ADA. If a person's addiction becomes so bad that it substantially impairs a major life activity such as working, walking, sleeping, seeing, or breathing, the addiction may be covered under the law.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Jun. 16 2005,9:55 am
Hi All,We now have Hennepin and Bloomington willing to look at the negative economic impact of the smoking bans. Please write or call them all. We are working on Minneapolis.
The Minnesota Department of Economic Security reported yesterday that 1400 jobs were lost in the last month in the hospitality industry. There will be more next month and even more in August when the minimum wage bill takes effect.
A poll in the Tribune reports 60% of those voting oppose the smoking bans while 37% support. Send that figure to anyone running for re-election.
St. Paul has 5 pages of bars who have filed for waivers, Minneapolis has 25 bars who applied for expansions (patios, sidewalk cafes) EVERYONE listed the reason as the smoking ban.
Even after the mayor spent $400,000 to bring the customers back, remember that! Bring back the customers we were never supposed to lose as all the non smokers rushed to our businesses. Well they haven't rushed in...in fact 20 businesses have already closed an most attribute it partially or all to the smoking ban.
Keep fighting folks!!! Send letters, call...ask your friends to write and call too!
Thanks,
Sue
Posted by GEOKARJO on Jun. 16 2005,2:27 pm
Cancer Society fined for lack of disclosure in anti-smoking adsKENNETH P. VOGEL; The News Tribune
June 10th, 2005
When the American Cancer Society last year paid to air television ads warning of the dangers of secondhand smoke, it didn’t disclose the expenditure because, it contended, the ads weren’t supporting a proposed smoking ban working its way through the Legislature.
The state’s Public Disclosure Commission disagreed and the society eventually reported the money it spent on the ads.
But that wasn’t enough for the commission, which Thursday approved a $3,500 fine against the society for missing deadlines to report the money it spent on the ads and other so-called “grass-roots lobbying” intended to generate support for smoking ban proposals.
According to a report from the commission’s staff, “the violations are significant,” since the $64,200 the commission spent pushing the smoking ban wasn’t disclosed until after the 2004 legislative session ended. That means people watching the ads – some of which featured former U.S. Surgeon General C. Everett Koop urging them to ask their legislators to support the ban – didn’t know who was paying for them.
The smoking ban proposals, which would have prohibited smoking in bars, restaurants and most other non-tribal businesses, failed. An initiative that would have done the same thing failed to make the ballot last year, though a similar one this year appears more likely to make the Nov. 8 ballot, thanks in part to nearly $600,000 in backing from the Cancer Society.
But the society has also missed deadlines for reporting its contributions to the initiative this year, according to the commission’s report. As part of the agreement approved Thursday, if the society commits another violation or fails to meet other conditions, it will trigger an additional $4,000 in fines.
The commission Thursday also fined the American Heart Association $400 for missing deadlines to report nearly $15,000 it spent pushing the smoking bans.
And it fined Breathe Easy Washington, the group that pushed last year’s failed smoking ban initiative, $400 for missing deadlines to report $8,500 in contributions it received last year.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Jun. 16 2005,10:36 pm
Nanci Holler, club manager at the Charles R. Knaeble VFW Post 494, 5222 56th Ave. N., Crystal, is smoking mad.
Holler was one of more than two dozen Hennepin County bar and
restaurant owners and employees who bombarded the county board June
7, begging its members to reconsider its countywide smoking ban.
Those who joined Holler say that the ban, which prohibits lighting up
in all food and liquor establishments within the county, has already
devastated their businesses. They say they have had to cut
employees'
hours or let them go altogether. Many of those workers are going
right back to the same line of work in neighboring counties, where
they find more freedom, or at least a more palatable set of smoking
restrictions.
Also, many testified that the deluge of celebratory non-smokers that
was supposedly ready to flood previously smoky bars has yet to
materialize.
Many bar owners made impassioned pleas to the county board's
general
government committee during the meeting's open forum.
Martin Duffy, owner of Duffy's Bar and Grill in Osseo, said his
income decreased 35 percent from March, the last month before the
smoking restrictions went into effect, and May.
Part of the problem for him, Duffy told the board, is that Anoka
County, with its restriction-free smoking, is a welcoming sight to
his customers and only five minutes away.
"I'm very, very angered. My customers are angered. My
employees are
angered," Duffy said. "I talk to them every single day and I
can't
understand why [the county] would do that to us."
Jeff Ormond, who owns Gabby's Saloon and Eatery in northeast
Minneapolis, said he has seen his business slip 12 percent in April
and 24 percent in May.
Ormond co-founded the Minneapolis Hospitality Association, a group of
more than 60 bars and restaurants in Hennepin's largest city.
Ormond presented the county board with a copy of the
association's
membership roll, and said that every business on the list has
reported losses of 10 to 50 percent of its regular monthly business
in two months.
He said that he has personally cut 10 of his 93 employees in the past
two months. Those employees, he said, are more concerned with their
paychecks than their health.
"The people I've seen leaving us are going back into a
smoking
application," Ormond told the board. "They're going to
Anoka. You
haven't helped them. You've only hurt us."
After the board heard more than an hour of similar testimony, Second
District Commissioner Mark Stenglein made a motion that would have
directed the county's staff to make a study of taxes collected
from
bars and restaurants in 2005. Stenglein was one of the two
commissioners who voted against the smoking ban.
Seventh District Commissioner Penny Steele, the other nay vote,
seconded Stenglein's motion.
"I don't think there would be support to just abolish the
ban, but
maybe we can take a pragmatic look at this," Steele said. "We
should
look at how this has worked and its economic impacts, and not just on
the bars that were going to go away anyway."
First District Commissioner Mike Opat spent a few minutes after the
open forum in the hallway visiting with those attending the meeting.
He suggested to them, and to the board, that some sort of compromise
may be possible, but one should be brought forward first.
"I think an outright repeal is unlikely. Personally, I don't
think
there should be smoking in any eating area," Opat said. "We
proposed
an ordinance that had a percentage of sales provision aimed more at
exempting bars, but it failed. [Bar owners] didn't have a
compromise
for us."
Stenglein's motion was progressed for further discussion and
should
be brought up at a later date.
Holler makes no attempt to hide her distaste for the county board or
its ban. In fact, a "Rogues Gallery" flyer, featuring the
photos,
phone numbers and emails of the five commissioners who voted for the
smoking ban, hangs near the VFW's front door. But Holler said she
has
an idea for a compromise. According to numbers she gave the county
board, a compromise is very necessary, and not just for the smokers.
The Crystal VFW donates 100 percent of its pulltab receipts to local
and statewide nonprofit organizations, schools and clubs. She said
the VFW gave $161,707 to 26 organizations – including Districts
281
and 279, Minneapolis' Patrick Henry High School and the city of
Crystal - between April 1, 2004 and March 31, 2005, when the ban went
into effect.
In March, she said the VFW's gross receipts exceeded $400,000. In
April and May, she said receipts are closer to $250,000. Gambling
receipts, she said, are down 46 percent.
Money lost to the smoking ban, she said, is money lost for local
charities. No VFW, she said, will ever let its veteran membership
will suffer a loss of funding before another group does.
For the Crystal VFW, she said, the ban has been devastating. Holler
said she has had to order less of everything, from liquor to food to
cleaning supplies, and has had to even cut her own hours.
"I don't feel that employees should have to lose hours while
I
don't," she said.
When she heard that Opat would like ideas for a compromise, she
snapped off a five-page e-mail to the county board, with a
suggestion.
Holler agrees with Opat that smoking should not be allowed in eating
areas. But, she said, the Crystal VFW and dozens of other businesses
affected by the smoking ban are bars first, and food establishments
second.
She proposes smoking restrictions similar to Ramsey County's
– she
said they should be based off of percentages of liquor sold compared
to percentages of food sold – but there's a twist.
By now, she said, she is convinced any bar hit hard by revenue losses
would be more than willing to pay a fee to get back its smokers.
Once a food/liquor percentage is agreed upon, Holler said
establishments wishing to offer smoking areas could be assessed an
equitable fee, or a percentage of the cost of a liquor license, for a
smoking permit.
She said her plan would not only save jobs and keep eaters and
drinkers in Hennepin County, but also generate millions of dollars
for the county through smoking permit fees.
"I even told them that they didn't have to tell anyone that
it was my
idea," Holler said. "I said they could have it for free."
Whether her proposal falls on receptive ears is anyone's guess.
In
Holler's mind, until something changes, that Rogues Gallery flyer
is
staying right where it is.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Jun. 23 2005,6:20 pm
Hmm.... how about a public challenge to them that they include in the bill the following statement:"Those who are voting for this bill wish to strongly affirm out belief that it will not hurt businesses in Freeborn. To show our honesty in that regard we make a firm commitment that if businesses are significantly hurt by the ban that we will not run for reelection. "Significantly hurt" will be determined by a survey of all bars and restaurants that the bill will force to switch from their current policies over to a total ban. The survey will be taken 6 months after the implementation of the ban. If more than half of such establishments feel they have been "significantly hurt" by the ban then we hereby declare ourselves ineligible to run for reelection.
If a smaller percentage of establishments feel they have been hurt by the ban and can show business records after one year quantifying the degree of injury they have suffered, we will authorize reimbursement to them from Freeborn County tax collections.
We make these commitments and see them as legally binding as evidence of the strength of our beliefs."
See if they'll put THAT in their pipes and smoke it
Posted by TameThaTane on Jun. 23 2005,7:19 pm
Bad boys, bad boys...what ya gonna do? what ya gonna do when they come for you?
Posted by GEOKARJO on Jun. 28 2005,2:30 pm
6/27/02 - Ramsey County District Judge Michael Fetchrefuses the attorney general’s request to eliminate
MPAAT as administrator of the state’s $202 million
smoking cessation and research fund. However, the
judge orders MPAAT to stop grants for smoke-free
indoor air efforts until it has spent a comparable
amount on individual cessation efforts.
Tom Koehler thought he had a ready partner last year
when he applied for a grant to help thousands of union
workers quit smoking.
Koehler and two colleagues approached the Minnesota
Partnership for Action Against Tobacco (MPAAT), which
was created to help smokers stop. The group saw the
estimated 174,000 smokers among Minnesota union
members as prime targets for its efforts.
MPAAT said no.
"We were kind of dumbfounded," said Koehler, who is a
local business representative for the International
Brotherhood of Electrical Workers.
MPAAT was given a straightforward mission -- to help
smokers quit -- by the court order that created it
from the 1998 settlement of the state's lawsuit
against the tobacco industry.
But the nonprofit organization has taken a radically
different path.
Armed with $202 million in public money, MPAAT has
pursued prohibition as its centerpiece, providing more
than $1 million for campaigns to pass no-smoking
ordinances that have mostly failed, dividing
communities in the process. The group has operated
with little or no accountability and has given most of
its grant money to organizations in which a third of
its own board members hold high level positions.
Of the $4.6 million awarded last year in MPAAT's first
and only round of grants to date, 82 percent went to
individuals or groups with ties to its board or
advisory committees.
While MPAAT's research advisory committee recommended
that 70 percent of the research grants address youth
smoking, only 20 percent -- $453,500 out of $2.3
million -- went to that purpose.
MPAAT has won praise for its eye-catching, $5.5
million ad campaigns on second-hand smoke and quitting
smoking -- "cessation" in MPAAT jargon. Created by the
Minneapolis agency Clarity Coverdale Fury, the ads
recently were honored at a national tobacco-control
conference. But its most successful effort to directly
help smokers quit dates to 1998 -- a giveaway of
donated nicotine patches that cost it just $50,000.
Even that modest gesture won't be repeated. The idea
to "slap a patch" on any Minnesotan who wants one, as
one official put it, has been discarded.. MPAAT's only
current cessation effort is a $551,000 telephone "help
line" that refers insured smokers to their insurance
companies, while sending others brochures with tips on
how to quit.
In its first three years, MPAAT has spent just $10.9
million of its endowment, far less than the $42.5
million that advisers suggested be spent in that time.
MPAAT must spend its entire endowment by 2023, when
the group's charter expires.
What's more, the road map that MPAAT was supposed to
rely on to guide its spending has been disregarded.
Early on, the group told the court that it would
conduct a thorough, widely publicized study of
Minnesota smokers before deciding on a course of
action.
The $223,000 survey was intended to measure Minnesota
adults' attitudes toward smoking and establish a
baseline by which to measure future progress. It was
commissioned, conducted, completed, analyzed, found to
be viable -- and never released, or even presented to
the board.
The survey indicated sharp division among Minnesotans
over prohibition initiatives, and MPAAT's own advisory
groups were recommending that it focus on cessation.
However, the MPAAT board nevertheless yielded to the
influence of activists in the Minnesota Smoke-Free
Coalition.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Jun. 29 2005,12:09 pm
County Board Has Much to ConsiderThe county board has tabled any decision on the Smoking Ban proposal until the 2nd Tuesday in July.
March 31. 2005 a total smoking ban went into effect in Minneapolis and since it has the hospitality industry has reported 29 businesses closed and 1400 jobs lost. Revenues are down in the industry 35 per cent. Gaming revenue from pull tabs is down as much as 50 per cent.
Duluth and Rochester tried total bans and later allowed exemptions but only after the damage was done.
Hennepin county provided for exemptions in the original ordinance.
One bar owner in town has stated the ban will cause the clientele to drop in his establishment and he foresees that there will be a 33 per cent cut in employment almost immediately as he foresees people driving to Austin or Iowa for a night out or just gathering in private homes to be with their friends.
The Smoke Free coalition received its money from the Tobacco Settlement Fund. When this money was applied for it was to be used for Education and Youth Prevention of Smoking.
The Smoke Free Coalition has used the money to Lobby our local government to pass a total smoking ban.
Had the Smoke Free Coalition used the money correctly in my opinion they would be seeking a change in the law that would more likely protect and educate our youth.
1. Raise the age to purchase cigarettes to the age of 21 the same as liquor.
By raising the age to purchase cigarettes to 21 would eliminate the availability of cigarettes to our youth under the age of 18. An 18 year old is not responsible enough to not buy his friends under the age of 18 cigarettes.
2. Restrict attendance of anyone under the age of 21 in establishments that allow smoking.
By doing this no one under the age of 21 is subjected to the act or the effects of second hand smoke.
3. Educate young parents as the hazards of the effect of SHS and young children.
Nothing I despise more than seeing young children in a car with the windows closed and both parents smoking.
4. Educate parents as to the proper ventilation systems and separate smoking area from the living area.
Behavior is learned from our parents. Smoking in the same room as your children is not healthy prepare a well ventilated room in your home away from the children or step outdoors.
Closing businesses and loss revenues in not the answer to changing a lifestyle. The perfect smoke free world the tobacco free project envisions is in our youth.
Posted by jimhanson on Jun. 29 2005,2:24 pm
I had to wait for 15 minutes today, so I picked up the 
Today's Red Star headline--"Most Minnesotan's favor smoking restrictions." In the body of the text, it mentions 76% favor smoking restrictions--consistent with the percentage of smokers vs. non-smokers.
Another interesting fact from the poll--13% of those polled said they had driven somewhere else within the preceeding month so they could eat, drink, and smoke.
Posted by Botto 82 on Jun. 29 2005,3:16 pm
I'd like to see an analysis of taxes collected from smokers vs. non-smokers."Your secondhand smoke is killing us, but keep smoking, anyway. Here's a $0.75/pack
Trust me, if all the smokers in Minnesota quit, the tax base is in big trouble. They'll be begging people to start up again...
Posted by jimhanson on Jun. 29 2005,4:38 pm
| Quote |
| I'd like to see an analysis of taxes collected from smokers vs. non-smokers. |
Good question--according to the House, (link) < http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/hrd/issinfo/sscigtax.pdf > the current tax of 48 cents per pack brings in $182 million--minus 6.5 cents per pack for designated uses--the balance goes into the general fund.
At the proposed 75 cents per pack, the revenue climbs to $383 million.
Posted by TameThaTane on Jun. 29 2005,4:48 pm
What about the billions state get from the companies. The fact is, is that we are ALL drug dealers.
Posted by jimhanson on Jun. 30 2005,10:32 am
| Quote |
| What about the billions state get from the companies. |
The "Tobacco Settlement" was legal extortion by the State. Very little went into "prevention", very little went into helping people with tobacco-created medical problems--and in any case, it's already gone, and there won't be another one.
Posted by scorenix on Jun. 30 2005,10:46 am
| Quote (jimhanson @ June 30 2005,10:32,am) |
| (Any time you see a government program saying "it's for the children"--hang on to your wallet). |
Does that include George W's "No Child Left Behind" or was that a Liberal, I mean socialist, I mean communist, underfunded program?
Posted by jimhanson on Jun. 30 2005,11:45 am
| Quote |
| Does that include George W's "No Child Left Behind" or was that a Liberal, I mean socialist, I mean communist, underfunded program? |
The U.S. Dept of Education was established as a Cabinet-level agency in 1980. Given its poor track record, despite billions of dollars poured into the system, major overhaul was needed. Three days after taking office, Bush proposed No Child Left Behind, to demand accountablity for all of the taxpayer funds that have been spent on a multitude of programs--many of which are ineffective. Do you have a problem with accountability?
From the U.S. Dept of Education website < http://www.ed.gov/nclb/landing.jhtml?src=fb >
| Quote |
| STRONGER ACCOUNTABILITY No Child Left Behind is designed to change the culture of America's schools by closing the achievement gap, offering more flexibility, giving parents more options, and teaching students based on what works. Under the act's accountability provisions, states must describe how they will close the achievement gap and make sure all students, including those who are disadvantaged, achieve academic proficiency. They must produce annual state and school district report cards that inform parents and communities about state and school progress. Schools that do not make progress must provide supplemental services, such as free tutoring or after-school assistance; take corrective actions; and, if still not making adequate yearly progress after five years, make dramatic changes to the way the school is run. |
What part of that statement do you disagree with? Perhaps the "giving parents more options" part--liberals are AFRAID of options--look at their opposition to letting people have options on Social Security. Perhaps the "teaching students based on what works"?
UNDERFUNDED? Would you be talking about the 33% increase in Federal Funds for the State of Minnesota since he took office? So much for those "mean ol' Republicans cutting aid" whiners.
< http://www.ed.gov/about/overview/budget/state/factsheets/minnesota.pdf >
Interesting--Democrats somehow think it is "unfair" (a favorite word with them) to demand that schools actually show that they used the money they were given wisely, and were accomplishing even a MINIMUM standard.
I shouldn't be surprised--this from the liberals that advocate that school kids shouldn't keep score in games since "someone will feel bad". According to that kind of thinking, No child will be left behind if no child excels. They'll grow up to be GOOD LITTLE DEMOCRATS--believing in the Democratic Mantra of income redistribution and government favoritism.
The hypocrisy of Democrats--patching up an obviously failed program like Social Security 43 times in 70 years--but 2 1/2 years into this program that ADDS MONEY FOR SCHOOLS BUT DEMANDS ACCOUNTABILITY, they want it axed.
Posted by scorenix on Jun. 30 2005,6:01 pm
You can talk about the increase in funding, but, when you implement a program, telling states the federal criteria, should the states shoulder the burden or should the federal government?
Posted by Botto 82 on Jun. 30 2005,6:23 pm
| Quote (jimhanson @ June 30 2005,11:45,am) |
| Do you have a problem with accountability? |
When it comes to The GW Bush Travelling Greed Show, you betcha!
Posted by scorenix on Jun. 30 2005,8:55 pm
And one more thing, you talk about increased federal funding, which is actually not near the required levels under No Child Left Behind: how has funding gone for Albert Lea area schools the past few years?
Posted by Botto 82 on Jun. 30 2005,11:43 pm
| Quote (scorenix @ June 30 2005,8:55,pm) |
| And one more thing, you talk about increased federal funding, which is actually not near the required levels under No Child Left Behind: how has funding gone for Albert Lea area schools the past few years? |
Well, you got rid of that old school that kids couldn't learn in. Surely the grades came way up after they moved into the new one...
Posted by jimhanson on Jul. 01 2005,7:13 pm
One more time--33% increase since 2002--no more whining.JIM
| Quote |
| Do you have a problem with accountability? |
Botto
| Quote |
| When it comes to The GW Bush Travelling Greed Show, you betcha! |
The statement was from the U.S. Department of Education--not Bush. Your Bush Bashing is showing. The program is funded 33% MORE than what came before--but that doesn't fit with the liberal agenda.I'll ask again--do you have a problem with anything in the Dept. of Education statement?
Once again--education in the U.S. has been a disaster since the department of education was funded 25 years ago--Billions of dollars down the drain, and poorer grades to show for it--yet, like the other failed Federal programs (Medicare/medicade, social security) you continue to defend it. Is there a social program you DON'T like?
If not looking for accountability from schools and teachers, and the ability to move your kid from a failing school--why not? What would you propose as an alternative?
Democrats--its easy to sit back on the sidelines, and offer no program other than the one that has failed for decades. Let's hear your ideas--and if you can't come up with some on your own, let's hear the Party line!
If we continue to "dumb down" education so that everybody gets the grades they THINK they should have, this is what we will have for second-graders.
Posted by TameThaTane on Jul. 01 2005,7:17 pm
The war on Terror with Iraq as the primary playing field will never end. It can never end and will never end. We are planting the seeds of cultural hatred that will last a 1000 years.
Posted by jimhanson on Jul. 01 2005,7:20 pm
And they were SUCH peace-loving people for the LAST 3,000 years!
Posted by Ned Kelly on Jul. 02 2005,9:31 am
Just how is GW going to change "that" into a democracy? Bush ought to bitch slap those in his administration who suggested that option, that would make Cheney the first.............ned:laugh:
Posted by jimhanson on Jul. 02 2005,10:07 am
Afghanistan--held elections for the first time. Not exactly the garden spot of the earth, but a whole lot better than it has ever been before. The U.S. did what the Russians failed at--despite horrific losses.Iraq--rolled right through the "Republican Guard" in 23 days. Elections held for the first time in modern history. No more of Saddam's torture chambers, mass executions, stealing the oil revenues from the corrupt UN to build palaces--no more trading with the corrupt Russians, Germans, and French violating UN sanctions--sanctions they signed on to.
Lebanon--Syrian occupation forces out.
Libya--gave up the Pan Am hijackers, voluntarily gave up their own WMD nuke and biological program.
Contrast that with the hand-wringing Carter--American hostages in Iran for 444 days--only to have them released on the eve of Reagan's taking office--they knew he would be coming to either take back the hostages or take revenge. This way, they got one final slap at Carter.
Contrast that with Clinton lobbing cruise missiles into empty tents at a
As we have seen during the entire Iraq war--and especially from the last Democratic Presidential candidate--the Dems are long on rhetoric, posturing, and criticism, and short on specifics. Can you name what their position is (or was) on fighting terrorists? Or is that one of those weighty problems, that "depends on what the meaning of IS is?"
Posted by Ned Kelly on Jul. 02 2005,11:18 am
Iraq IS Bush's war.... Afhganistan Is our war....It IS as simple as that....Where Is Osama, the mastermind of the attack on the World Trade Center? Bush is in his second term, why IS he still acting like a stumble-bum as far as catching Osama???..........ned
Posted by jimhanson on Jul. 02 2005,12:02 pm
And you could do any better? Or Kerry/Clinton? Maybe Kerry could have his imaginary friend from the CIA--the guy that gave him the "magic hat" hunt him down. Maybe he would do the job himself--you know--like "running guns to the Khmer Rouge"--despite the fact that the Khmer Rouge didn't start until 4 years after Lt. Kerry was back in the U.S.--disparaging American Troops. Maybe Clinton could kill him by lobbing a few cruise missiles in the general direction to distract from his own problems--no, that didn't happen--Clinton actually had the chance to capture Bin Laden, but didn't approve the operation.
In any case--Saddam is no longer in power, and Bin Laden isn't either. Syria isn't in Lebanon, and Ghadafi has renounced terrorism.
It is curious that libbies like to come back with "but where is Bin Laden" as a retort to the successes in Afghanistan. It would be nice to drag his corpse through New York--but the very fact that he hasn't been heard from is good news. But Dems don't LIKE good news about Bush successes, do they?
Posted by Liberal on Jul. 02 2005,12:16 pm
lol, if you can't defend GW, just attack Clinton (or Kerry).
Posted by scorenix on Jul. 02 2005,12:16 pm
| Quote (jimhanson @ July 02 2005,10:07,am) |
| Libya--gave up the Pan Am hijackers, |
Of course, they gave up the "Pam Am hijackers" AFTER the United States assured them they would not be tried in the United States. Why? Because of the laws of conspiracy. See, in the United States, you don't have to prove they did the crime. You only have to prove that someone else did the crime (like an organization) then mildly attach the defendant to the organization.
And, if memory serves me right, it was not a resounding victory for the United States, was it?
Posted by scorenix on Jul. 02 2005,12:20 pm
| Quote (jimhanson @ June 30 2005,11:45,am) |
| UNDERFUNDED? Would you be talking about the 33% increase in Federal Funds for the State of Minnesota since he took office? So much for those "mean ol' Republicans cutting aid" whiners. |
You can talk all you want about increased funding (face it, statistics are used by both sides), but look at the local side. Has Albert Lea schools seen an increase in funding?
Posted by Joink on Jul. 02 2005,12:24 pm
Great smoking ban thread............right?
Posted by GEOKARJO on Jul. 02 2005,12:35 pm
Kind like the 20 letters to the editor of the fish wrap that was never published But uif you look back on this thread you will find them. Our current editor favors a postion on a subject then rams it down the throat of the subscribers. There is no such thing as fair and balanced reporting.
Posted by jimhanson on Jul. 02 2005,3:11 pm
| Quote |
| lol, if you can't defend GW, just attack Clinton (or Kerry). |
| Quote |
| Afghanistan--held elections for the first time. Not exactly the garden spot of the earth, but a whole lot better than it has ever been before. The U.S. did what the Russians failed at--despite horrific losses. Iraq--rolled right through the "Republican Guard" in 23 days. Elections held for the first time in modern history. No more of Saddam's torture chambers, mass executions, stealing the oil revenues from the corrupt UN to build palaces--no more trading with the corrupt Russians, Germans, and French violating UN sanctions--sanctions they signed on to. Lebanon--Syrian occupation forces out. Libya--gave up the Pan Am hijackers, voluntarily gave up their own WMD nuke and biological program. Contrast that with the hand-wringing Carter--American hostages in Iran for 444 days--only to have them released on the eve of Reagan's taking office--they knew he would be coming to either take back the hostages or take revenge. This way, they got one final slap at Carter. Contrast that with Clinton lobbing cruise missiles into empty tents at a terrorist(excuse me, I know that liberals don't believe there are terrorists in Iraq) freedom fighter's training camp as a diversion for the Monica affair problem impeachment. Of course, Clinton going into the Balkans or Bosnia TEN YEARS AGO is NOT a "Quagmire"--despite the fact that we are still there. To paraphrase the lefties--"What is the "exit strategy" from Bosnia? On what exact date will the troops come home?" As we have seen during the entire Iraq war--and especially from the last Democratic Presidential candidate--the Dems are long on rhetoric, posturing, and criticism, and short on specifics. Can you name what their position is (or was) on fighting terrorists? Or is that one of those weighty problems, that "depends on what the meaning of IS is?" |
No engagement on the issues--either on this board or nationally. Their whole platform is "I hate George Booosh", and it took them down to defeat last year--lost the Presidency (again), lost the House (5 times in a row), lost the Senate (again), lost the majority of governorships. People aren't buying what they're selling. Maybe they need a new spokesman, maybe they just need to tell people what they are FOR, not against.
Yet all we get from the libby side is snide remarks and quick comebacks--the same as we get on the national level from the "usual suspects" of nutcases--Carville, Kennedy, Pelosi, Reid, Schumer. I'll even have to give Hillary credit--she usually isn't part of the Donky Party attack machine. Then of course, there is Kerry--on both sides of every issue.
| Quote |
| As we have seen during the entire Iraq war--and especially from the last Democratic Presidential candidate--the Dems are long on rhetoric, posturing, and criticism, and short on specifics. Can you name what their position is (or was) on fighting terrorists? Or is that one of those weighty problems, that "depends on what the meaning of IS is?" |
I've said it many times before, but here it is one more time. Lots of rhetoric on the Dem side, but short on specifics. I've asked before--what are YOUR thoughts on saving Social Security, or Medicare--what are YOUR thoughts on how to disengage from Iraq? Failing to come up with any ideas of your own, what is the Democratic platform on the issues? Is there one? Is it the same as the one that was rejected last year? NOT ONE RESPONSE FROM A LIB ON WHAT THEY WOULD DO DIFFERENTLY. The silence is deafening.
Maybe that's the reason the Dems lost again last year--lack of any specific plan other than putting their head in the sand and pretending the liberal chickens hatched by these socialist pipe-dreams haven't come home to roost.
Posted by Liberal on Jul. 02 2005,4:20 pm
| Quote |
Yet all we get from the libby side is snide remarks and quick comebacks |
That's because you don't listen to anything that is said anymore. Everytime you and the rest of the nut job conservatives in this country are discredited all you/they do is start trying to divert attention away from GW's failures by saying "What about Clinton's blowjob?" or "John Kerry was never in Cambodia!".
| Quote |
what are YOUR thoughts on saving Social Security, or Medicare--what are YOUR thoughts on how to disengage from Iraq? |
You got yourselves into that Iraq problem now you come looking to the people that said, "stay the hell out" and want us to tell you how to disengage?
As far as the way to save medicare and Social Security the answer is simple. Either decrease spending or increase revenue.
I know your answer is to decrease spending, but if you decrease spending on the elderly and the disabled on a federal level you're just going to increase it at a state or a local level. And when the local and state economies can no longer take care of the elderly and the disabled, the elderly and the disabled will move on to places that can. Which will further deteriorate the less populous state's property tax base
My answer is to increase revenue by liberalizing our immigration policies to compensate for the baby boomers and then get rid of any federal wage controls.
Posted by jimhanson on Jul. 02 2005,4:50 pm
| Quote |
| all you/they do is start trying to divert attention away from GW's failures by saying "What about Clinton's blowjob?" or "John Kerry was never in Cambodia!". |
Failure? As Launch Director Gene Kranz in Apollo 13 said--"Failure? Not likely. I believe this is gonna' be our finest hour!"
What about Clinton's BJ? Do I mention it? NO, but since you bring it up-- It has become an automatic reaction on the part of libbies--"It's all about sex". It wasn't--it was about all the things he was impeached for--obstruction of justice, suborning perjury, lies to Congress and to the American People. He struck a deal on his last day in office--admitting to the charges, and agreeing to disbarment. Isn't it ironic that people that (correctly) called out the Mayor for improprieties and lies are willing to give a former President a pass for the same thing? The hypocrisy..........
| Quote |
| "John Kerry was never in Cambodia!". |
It wouldn't be bad if this guy was some fantacizing liar, bragging in his millionaires club--but this guy said these lies to try to convince you to vote him President of the United States. No wonder the Las Vegas odds on him winning the White House in 2008 are 48-1 !
Unlike the Dems fabricated memos and memes, these are verifiable and factual. (Please--demonstrate that they are not) Are Democrats so eager to get back in power that they will tolerate deliberate deception by people like this, or is a genetic thing with liberals--unable to tell the difference between fantasy and reality?
Posted by OEF_Soldier on Jul. 16 2005,11:07 pm
OK I am gonna do something I just know I will regret in the morning. I have to add my 2 cents into this topic and give a little bit of firsthand accounting on some of the issues being brought forth.I am very proud of the fact that for the first time in many of their lives the Afghan populace was allowed to hold a free and democratic election. I had the honor of being there when it happened and I was able to hear about many of those locals, both men AND women, smiling and telling our soldiers THANK YOU. This was for them a chance to set right what for many many years had gone wrong. As for where is Bin Laden well lemme put it to y'all this way...... Have any of you bothered to look at the region where many of the worlds intelligence agencies believe him to be? This area is much like the stories I heard about from Nam vets concerning the infamous Viet Cong tunnels. The biggest difference is that it is a mountainous region in the area bin Laden is suspected to be hiding. It is honeycombed with tunnels that our entire army couldn't clear in a year. He has lived in Afghanistan for many years and was a part of the Mujahedeen resistance during the Russian occupation. To say that he knows this area very well would be an understatement. One other piece of information for those of you who may still ask that question....there is the matter of a little line on a map that DIVIDES Pakistan from Afghanistan called the border. The AQ/TB fighters can traverse this at will and they quite frequently do but, as in Vietnam, our boys are not allowed to follow them across the border. Many of these aforementioned tunnels also traverse the border and they provide a very easy means of undetected access into and out of Afghanistan. I invite anybody who wishes to know more to meet me sometime for coffee as there is alot more to this particular subject than I can put into this post. As for Clinton and Kerry and Carter well I have very little respect for any of them for one simple reason and it is not political per se'. Between the 3 of them they have in some way brought shame and discredit upon the US Military. Carter by his failure in the Desert of Iran, Clinton by not having the guts to remove bin Laden when the occasion arose and Kerry for simply having the balls to blatantly lie about a career in the Navy that was nowhere close to what he claimed it to be. Mind you I am not registered as either Dem or Rep but if Kerry was the best that the Dems could come up with well then it will be a long time before I will vote for a Dem as President. Howard Dean would have been a better choice in MY opinion. One more thing before I go......I have voted for Dems in other offices so do not think my rant is against that party as a whole. It isn't but it IS about them finding someone better.
Posted by TameThaTane on Jul. 19 2005,10:21 am
So you're proud you can go to other countries in the world and force your values upon them?How would you feel if other countries solders invaded your homeland and felt very proud they were able to instill thier values on you?
Posted by GEOKARJO on Jul. 19 2005,10:32 am
The devise you are using to Ditz your own country is what made us strong. You don't like America it politictians and policies move your unpatritotic ass to Iraq or Afganistan and see how long you keep your hat hanger. I would think someone who was on the cover of soldier magizine would be a little more patriotic. Who do you think your fooling with your user names we all sit back and talk about you and your antics and we all know who you are.
Posted by TameThaTane on Jul. 19 2005,10:36 am
How would you feel if other countries solders invaded your homeland and felt very proud they were able to instill thier values on you? Well, how would you feel? If you can imagine how you'd feel, than you can imagine how they feel.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Jul. 19 2005,10:40 am
How did you feel on 9-11, they should have thought about that before THEY DECLARED WAR.
Posted by TameThaTane on Jul. 19 2005,10:44 am
I felt it was handful of terrosts hijacking a plane. Certainly not worth giving them credit for changing the world and our laws resulting in less freedom. You're the one insisting to use this event to push your agenda.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Jul. 19 2005,11:39 am
Handful of heavily financed with a history that dates back to Beruit, to the First Twin Towers Bombing to the USS Cole to 9-11
Posted by GEOKARJO on Jul. 19 2005,12:03 pm
Islam spread far from its birthplace in the modern nation of Saudi Arabia. By AD1095, Muslim territory included land where Jesus Christ lived. Christians warriors of the era believed Christians, not Muslims, should control their holy lands. The Crusades were a series of wars initiated by Christians to win back their holy lands from Muslims.
The Crusaders were ultimately unable to reclaim their holy lands, but the wars had another effect: Western Europeans had left their homes to fight in a distant war. The stories of the returning Crusaders encouraged their countrymen to look beyond their own villages for the first time.
Posted by Liberal on Jul. 19 2005,12:28 pm
| Quote |
The devise you are using to Ditz your own country is what made us strong. You don't like America it politictians and policies move your unpatritotic ass to Iraq or Afganistan and see how long you keep your hat hanger. I would think someone who was on the cover of soldier magizine would be a little more patriotic. Who do you think your fooling with your user names we all sit back and talk about you and your antics and we all know who you are. |
Is this directed at me? Look here Captain Cut-n-Paste, I'm not 3T, Minnow or Paul Harvey and it would take one simpleminded son of a bitch to believe I was. For one thing you'd have to believe that 3T is the type of person that would spend 3 years in the Army with the 101st airborne division. You'd also have to believe that he's the type of person that has a pierced ear, eyebrow and tattoos. One other obvious point is that he was posting on a pretty regular basis last month when I was on vacation in Colorado.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Jul. 19 2005,12:41 pm
If it wasn't for me being on the right you wouldn't have a left. Oh did I say that out loud (someone who was on the cover of soldier magizine) The jury is still out on that one. You got to admit you both have a lot in common. Your views on the war, your love of bicycling. I give you the Colorado alibi, but just repeating what is being said in public.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Jul. 19 2005,12:43 pm
So I asked?
Posted by OEF_Soldier on Jul. 20 2005,6:24 pm
Ya know 3T after watching what Afghanistan went through for 30+ years I am proud that they have decided to allow us to "force" our ideals upon them. You have absolutely no idea how happy those citizens of the city I was in for 12 months were when the presidential elections came about last October. I was stationed in a provincial capitol city by the way. These citizens, both men and women, were very happy to be able to vote. For many of them this was the first time they were allowed to vote in their lifetimes. These people are the same ones who began to rebel against the totalitarian regime of the Taliban because of it's strict interpretation of Islamic laws. I mean kids could not fly a d@mn KITE because it distracted them from studying the Koran. Many of the people of Afghanistan have accepted the new way of life and they welcome it with open arms. As for another country invading this one......It was tried once and the Brits were sent packing back to their lovely little isle in the north sea. I won't try to envision what I would do if some other country were to attempt to invade this one because it is unlikely and anything I say would be pure speculation.
Posted by Liberal on Jul. 20 2005,6:31 pm
| Quote |
For many of them this was the first time they were allowed to vote in their lifetimes. These people are the same ones who began to rebel against the totalitarian regime of the Taliban because of it's strict interpretation of Islamic laws. I mean kids could not fly a d@mn KITE because it distracted them from studying the Koran. Many of the people of Afghanistan have accepted the new way of life and they welcome it with open arms. |
The Taliban had to be removed for the human rights violations especially against women, but, it's really none of our business if they want their kids to fly kites or study religious texts.
Posted by OEF_Soldier on Jul. 20 2005,6:36 pm
I agree but that was used as an example of the strictness of the Taliban and their interpretation of Islamic law.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Jul. 20 2005,6:37 pm
I guess the world trade center and the thousands of civilians dying there had nothing to do with it.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Jul. 27 2005,12:28 pm
In a sudden change of direction, Hennepin County moved closer Tuesday toward a partial rollback of a smoking ban that the state's largest county put into effect only four months ago.The county has been under pressure to scale back the ban, and more than 100 smoking-ban opponents held signs and applauded Tuesday as commissioners voted overwhelmingly to undertake a study of the ban's economic impact.
It appeared to signal the first significant backlash to the wave of smoking bans adopted last year by metro area governments, including Minneapolis, Ramsey County and Bloomington.
Afterward, Commissioner Gail Dorfman -- who coauthored the ban last fall -- acknowledged that there may be enough votes on the board to exempt traditional bars from the ordinance.
Smoking is allowed at St. Paul's Turf Club.Jeff WheelerStar Tribune"There seems to be some shifting going on, on the board," she said. "Hopefully, we can hold firm here. But we're under some pressure."
County officials -- and bar owners -- said that the voting pointed to the fact that the bans had created an uneven playing field, forcing bars on the edge of Hennepin County to lose money and lay off employees while customers scooted to bars in Anoka County, where there is no smoking ban, or to Ramsey County, where the ban exempts bars.
"I'm worried about making my house payment," said Cheryl Irving, a bar manager at Rostamo's, a bar in Crystal. "My personal income is down 40, 50 percent. I now have to work six shifts, where I used to work four."
Irving was among the onlookers who crowded together to watch as the county's commissioners debated the topic -- and left disappointed that the commissioners did not simply scale back the ordinance.
"I think it's shameful," Irving said before leaving the meeting.
John Alexander, who owns Johnny A's, a sports bar in Minneapolis, agreed. "I can't pay my taxes," said Alexander, who said he has dismissed his private security staff at the bar. "My business has gone down by 35 percent.
"It's a slow death," he added.
Key vote: McLaughlin
Commissioner Mark Stenglein, who called for the economic impact study, said his goal is to roll back Hennepin County's ordinance to match the ban in Ramsey County, where bars that derive at least 50 percent of their sales from alcohol (as opposed to food) are exempt.
Hennepin County's current ban, which took effect March 31, is modeled after the ban Minneapolis adopted last year, and it covers nearly all eating establishments, including traditional bars.
Commissioner Mike Opat, who voted for Hennepin County's ban, represented the change in thinking that has taken place since the ban passed last fall by a 5 to 2 vote.
"For me, our ordinance goes a little too far," he said Tuesday. "I'm interested in carving out some exemptions." While Opat said he wanted to "decrease the pain" for bar owners, he said he doubted the changes to the new law would satisfy all of the ordinance's critics.
With the economic impact study expected to take perhaps a month, county officials said any change to the ordinance would likely not be voted on until the fall.
That timeline also would probably put the political spotlight on Commissioner Peter McLaughlin, who is considered a swing vote on any exemptions to the ban and who is also campaigning to be Minneapolis' next mayor. McLaughlin, who approved the ban last fall, voted Tuesday for the economic study.
Although McLaughlin did not directly state his intentions, he clearly sympathized with the bar owners. "We got people who are bleeding here, so let's get on with this," McLaughlin said at one point during the meeting.
Said Dorfman: "Peter's the swing. Peter makes the difference on this."
Economic effects
Dorfman said Tuesday's development was almost sure to lead to a countermove by anti-smoking advocates to uphold the ordinance. She said that smoking ban opponents had changed the focus from public health to economic impacts.
"When we passed the ban, we talked about our responsibility to protect public health. There was none of that today," she said.
Should Hennepin County scale back its ordinance, the move would not immediately affect Minneapolis or two suburbs in the county, Bloomington and Golden Valley, that adopted ordinances that go beyond what the county passed.
Last October, Golden Valley not only banned smoking in restaurants but prohibited it in restaurant outdoor seating areas, city parks and on the city-owned golf course.
Bill Nicklow, whose family owns five restaurants in Hennepin County, watched Tuesday's meeting and then shook his head. "I was under the impression the world was created to support the people, and not punish them," he said. "We're losing our customers. We're losing our help."
Posted by Liberal on Aug. 19 2005,6:08 pm
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Aug. 19 2005,5:55) |
| Researchers uncover mutated genes involved in lung cancer; one affects nonsmokers < http://www8.utsouthwestern.edu/utsw/cda/dept37389/files/208772.html > |
Wow, talk about researching the obvious.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Aug. 19 2005,6:15 pm
Who knows it could be the one of many steps to a cure, I do believe the research is, significant to justify another funds grant to continue the research.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Aug. 24 2005,11:26 am
With a reconsideration of Hennepin County's strict smoking ban expected soon, Minnesota's richest and most controversial anti-tobacco group took steps Tuesday to hire lobbyists to influence County Board deliberations.By a vote of 9 to 1, the board of the Minnesota Partnership for Action Against Tobacco (MPAAT) authorized lobbying by its staff, board members and contract lobbyists on the state and local level.
"This is a new step for MPAAT," said David Willoughby, the group's executive director.
"We expect there will be critics," he said. "But we believe the benefit of injecting MPAAT's unique resources and expertise into the debate outweighs the downside."
The move to assign the lobbying firm of Lockridge Grindal Nauen to efforts to maintain Hennepin County's nearly 5-month-old smoking ban revives old questions about the proper role of the nonprofit MPAAT, which was established with a $202 million endowment from the tobacco industry's settlement with the state of Minnesota in 1998.
"This is taxpayer money," said Dr. Richard Mulder, a former Republican legislator from Ivanhoe who joined the MPAAT board this year. "I don't believe we should use taxpayer money for this."
Mulder was appointed by House Speaker Steve Sviggum, R-Kenyon, to replace Rep. Tim Wilkin, R-Eagan, who quit MPAAT to protest an earlier decision to grant up to $1.5 million to community groups to foster local smoking bans.
On Tuesday, Mulder was the only dissenter from the board action that will allow MPAAT to pay the Lockridge firm up to $25,000 for lobbying through the end of the year. MPAAT paid the firm $50,000 for an earlier one-year contract to train its board and staff on lobbying rules.
Another former GOP legislator on the board, ex-Sen. Nancy Brataas of Rochester, supported the move, however. "It is not taxpayer money," she said of MPAAT's endowment. "This is very appropriate."
Last month, the Hennepin County Board ordered a study of the economic impact of its smoking ban, which applies to bars and restaurants alike. Some bar owners have complained of losing customers to establishments in counties with no smoking ban or in Ramsey County, which exempts bars that ring up at least half their sales in alcohol.
The study, due next month, could lead to a softening of the Hennepin County ban, MPAAT Chairman Michael Vekich said. "As they come up with the data, we need to be prepared," he added.
Following a courtroom rebuke initiated by state Attorney General Mike Hatch in 2002, MPAAT had backed away from most efforts to sway public policy on smoking.
But Willoughby said Tuesday that its new course falls well within a court order that its lobbying should not outweigh its work to help individual smokers quit the habit.
Posted by ICU812 on Aug. 24 2005,11:35 am
| Quote |
| "But we believe the benefit of injecting MPAAT's unique resources and expertise into the debate outweighs the downside." |
Statements like the above make my skin crawl.
We believe and outweigh.
Is there a way we can find what this Will the doughboy (David Willoughby)does at his day job?
Posted by ICU812 on Aug. 24 2005,11:41 am
Nevermind that is his day job.< Check out how many euphorians it takes to stamp out smoking on private property. >
Posted by GEOKARJO on Aug. 24 2005,12:40 pm
I just called the IRS Fraud Hotline and reported the story and the Freeborn county Smoke Free coalition story where the represenitive of the Amercan Lung association said it was ok to do some lobbying. However Section 501 of the IRS code states that they cannot.
Posted by jimhanson on Aug. 24 2005,3:53 pm
| Quote |
| Check out how many euphorians it takes to stamp out smoking on private property. |
I didn't see Q.E. Wolff Slattery among the listing of Euphorians!
Posted by GEOKARJO on Sep. 02 2005,1:21 pm
Night falls on nightlife at megamall
Chris Serres, Star Tribune
August 31, 2005 MALLCLUBS0831
< http://www.startribune.com/stories/535/5587900.html >
Posted by menace616 on Sep. 02 2005,1:28 pm
What's your point?
Posted by GEOKARJO on Sep. 02 2005,1:35 pm
Yepper Smoking Bans Improve Business and Creates Jobs. 
People Have been protected however they are out of work.
Posted by menace616 on Sep. 02 2005,1:37 pm
you need to read the complete article, it's not the smoking ban that devastated the 4th floor of the megamall.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Sep. 02 2005,1:40 pm
| Quote |
| "The smoking ban hurt all of us a lot more than we thought it would," said Andy Kostka, manager of the Hooters restaurant in the mall. |
I did, I read it to the end where I found the above quote.
Posted by Mad Mike on Sep. 02 2005,2:04 pm
The manager at Jillians claims that is why he had to close down last week.If you can smoke.... they will come.
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 02 2005,2:18 pm
| Quote (Mad Mike @ Sep. 02 2005,2:04pm) |
| The manager at Jillians claims that is why he had to close down last week. If you can smoke.... they will come. |
If they need to poisen people to remain in business - screw 'em...
time to find a different way to make a living...
that's a novel thought...
if another cigarette is never smoked that certainly wouldn't be a bad thing - only self-centered people like Geo believe that stopping smoking is a bad thing...
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 03 2005,8:42 am
What bothers you most about smoking?Is it the horrific death that it brings onto people?
Did your mother, father, a grandparent or other loved one die before their time because of them?
Is it the rude litterbug smoker?
Is it the inconsiderate goof that accidently burned you with his or her cigarette because you happened to be too close to them?
Is it the bad breath or smelly clothes and odor that smokers emanate?
Is it their irrational sense of entitlement?
As far as I'm concerned the education and knowledge is out there and it's been out there for two generations now...
to all of the non-smokers I say - fight back...
support ALL anti-smoking resolutions - ALL smoking bans...
shun smokers - refuse to socialize with them as much as possible - and make sure that they know why...
and to all of you smokers that want to quit I say there is help available...
to all those smokers that don't want to quit I say - what the hell is the matter with you - and of course I also say - sorry for the painful death you're going to endure - I'll say hi to your grandchildren for you...
and lastly I say...
thanks for paying so much taxes...
Posted by Ned Kelly on Sep. 03 2005,9:50 am
I watched my brother-in-law suffocate with his lungs full of lung cancer tumors. He was so addicted that he smoked until he couldn't breathe anymore. He had parts of his lungs cut out and several ribs removed and chemo, and all this while he continued to smoke and deny he was dying.When my own doctor challenged me about my smoking years ago, I told him it was very hard to quit. He said it was hard to die from lung cancer. He made me so damn mad I quit smoking. That doctor has since retired but I made a special effort to thank him in person........
....ned
Posted by GEOKARJO on Sep. 03 2005,10:23 am
Smoking Kills, no one says it doesn't. To discriminate against people who do is wrong and tax the hell out of them is wrong.
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 03 2005,12:04 pm
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Sep. 03 2005,10:23am) |
| Smoking Kills, no one says it doesn't. To discriminate against people who do is wrong and tax the hell out of them is wrong. |
The fact that smoking kills is reason enough to "discriminate" against them or "tax the hell out of them"...
it really doesn't matter what is done - if it nudges them closer to making the logical decision to quit smoking then that's a good thing...
if they won't quit they they can pay the price - one helluva price will be exacted on them one day anyway if they live long enough...
plus the sons-a-bitches are killing others with their 2nd hand smoke that they so selfishly insist on putting out...
I might not be so against the cigarette smokers if they could figure out a way to take in the tobacco and just hang on to it - ingest it and digest it - no exhaling it...
I saw a woman that was taking her smoke breaks in her car and then she was throwing the cigaretes into the parking lot before she went back in the building...
I asked her why she didn't put the cigarettes in her ashtray and she told me that she doesn't have an ashtray in her car...
so then I asked her who is responsible for picking up your discarded cigarette butts...
she responded that she's sure someone is paid to keep the lot clean...
hard to argue with logic like that - I kind of wondered if it was Geo in drag...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Sep. 12 2005,10:07 am
From MinneapolisTop 11 reasons local personalities support the smoking ban....
11) There is so much more room on the floor when I do the YMCA dance at First Av -Pink Monkey Bird
10) My hair doesn't smell like smoke anymore -Hennepin County Commissioner Linda Koblick
9) We've got nearly $200 million from the tobacco settlement to spend we might as well do something with it, especially now that Mike Hatch is distracted with this Governor's race thing -Dave Willoughby MPAAT
8) There's no waiting now at all my favorite hangouts like The Saloon, Minneapolis Eagle, and Bryant lake Bowl -Mayor R.T. Rybak
7) My job description when hired 6 months ago said I was supposed to stand up for this "smoking ban thing" whatever that is -Bob Moffit Communications American Lung MN.
6) That St. Louis Park Environmental Health Department study only measured the air quality for secondhand smoke......who's gonna believe that biased crap -Hennepin County Commissioner Gail Dorfman
5) You will ban smoking or I'm gonna keep screaming until you do.....I only get paid when a smoking ban passes, and the one in Duluth keeps getting scaled back -Pat McKone American Lung Duluth
4) Somebody told me two million people per year die from secondhand smoke.......so what if it was the marketing director of Nicoderm CQ - Hennepin County Commissioner Randy Johnson
3) The average puppet, er politician is so easily manipulated....minds of putty they have. Geeves bid on another NFL team for me, I'm making so much money I need an additional tax shelter -Robert Wood Johnson IV
2) I hate businesses and always have, ever since my failed business attempts-St. Paul city council member Dave Thune
1) Thank god, I was getting tired of counting all that money every night before the smoking ban took effect......now my job is so much easier -John Rimarcik owner of The Monte Carlo, Cafe Havana, & Runyon's
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 12 2005,11:03 am
The above post from George goes into the running for the award as dumbest post of the year...it seems to me that since he has so many entries in the contest we could just stop it and give him the award for "Dumbest Poster"...
but then there is BozoThaClown...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Sep. 13 2005,2:15 am
who would win the dumbest poster award?
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 14 2005,5:52 am
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Sep. 13 2005,2:15am) |
| who would win the dumbest poster award? |
for content, grammar and spelling - you would - no doubt about it...
for ideas and observations - most likely TTT...
Merlyn is trying to nose into the competition - but he/she hasn't had enough posts to qualify - you two have a tremendous advantage in that category...
but for now you can stick this on your mantel and admire it...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Sep. 14 2005,12:53 pm
Well you must qualify for an award as well.
Posted by TameThaTane on Sep. 14 2005,4:30 pm
Cigarettes to be outlawed by 2015.
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 15 2005,1:06 am
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Sep. 14 2005,12:53pm) |
| Well you must qualify for an award as well. |
I'll leave that for you to decide, Dumbo...
I know one thing - barring unforseen circumstances I'll be reading and posting on forums like these long after smoking cigarettes has robbed you of your life...
I don't think I can say it any clearer than that...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Sep. 15 2005,3:04 am
It is not up to me to decide it is up to the readers.Gotcha un huh thought I wouldn't get ya now didn't ya un huh..............
Posted by irisheyes on Sep. 15 2005,10:03 am
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Sep. 03 2005,12:04pm) |
| plus the sons-a-bitches are killing others with their 2nd hand smoke that they so selfishly insist on putting out... |
I know what you mean, I get sick of seeing so many obituaries in the paper of people dieing of second-hand smoke.
| Quote |
| I saw a woman that was taking her smoke breaks in her car and then she was throwing the cigaretes into the parking lot before she went back in the building... |
You know what makes me mad...
Getting gum on my shoes...
People who chew gum are inconsiderate...
We should outlaw gum...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Sep. 15 2005,10:29 am
Putting a face on impact of smoking bansSeptember 14, 2005
CRAIG WESTOVER
The back door of Stasiu's Bar leads to the patio. "Patio" is a stretch. It's a wooden stoop maybe 5 feet deep and 7 feet across. On a warm September night, Stasiu's Happy Hour patrons rotate out to the patio to smoke. Inside, two women shoot pool. Another dozen or so people sit at the bar. Jerry Ayers ambles through the back door like he hasn't a care in the world.
Jerry is a bartender at the Northeast Minneapolis bar. A blue-collar bar in a working class neighborhood, Stasiu's is that place where everybody knows your name. Where your drink is on the bar before you ask for it. It's also where Hennepin County and the city of Minneapolis dictate that patrons can smoke only on the patio.
Jerry is a right jolly guy. A younger, sans white beard, St. Nick — rosy cheeks, merry dimples and a broad face, and he has a bit of girth that shakes when he laughs. And he laughs often. Not easy for a guy watching "the best job I've ever had" yanked away.
Making his way along the bar, Jerry stops frequently to lay a hand on a shoulder, share a laugh, swap a story. To the only stranger in the bar he offers a quick introduction. "I just want to say 'hi' to a few friends," he tells me, meaning everybody else in Stasiu's, including the middle-aged woman reading a paperback novel in the pull-tab booth.
The woman has time to read. For April, May and June, charitable gambling receipts in smoke-free Hennepin County are down more than $10 million year-to-year, according to the Minnesota Gambling Control Board. After prizes, expenses and taxes, that's close to $500,000 that will not be funneled to local youth and civic organizations, veterans and senior citizens.
"Pretty quiet," I note to Greg Kubik, the bartender, cook, server — the only employee on duty. Staff has been laid off and hours cut since the smoking ban. Greg has worked at Stasiu's since the first keg was tapped 30 years ago.
"Wasn't always like this," he said. "Even on weekdays about half the tables were full. Both pool tables were usually busy." He gestures over the relatively empty room. "This is about it now."
Smoking ban proponents point to aggregate industry numbers showing that hospitality taxes have not decreased after smoking bans were enacted. As long as government gets theirs, all is right with the world. That Stasiu's is virtually empty, that more than 20 such taverns have closed since the smoking ban, is inconsequential to the powerful, the influential and the arrogant.
Stasiu's is just one inconsequential working class bar; Jerry, Greg and Stasiu's patrons just inconsequential working class stiffs. Says the Minnesota Partnership for Action Against Tobacco, 74 percent of Minnesotans favor smoking bans. Is that a surprise? When at no cost a majority can impose its whim on a despised minority, why not? Individual property rights and freedom of choice are just inconsequential rhetoric in the collective vision of a smoke-free Minnesota.
"On a good weekend night before the ban a bartender could make $250 in tips," Jerry said. "Now, it's closer to $50. I used to save all my change in a big jar for vacation money. I don't do that any more."
Greg, whose monthly income is down $500 to $600, canceled his vacation this year. His house is on the market. Jerry is selling baseball memorabilia collected by his father over decades and augmented by Jerry's second job, working in the Twins Pro Shop.
"We had planned to save it (an extensive collection) for my daughter's education," Jerry said. "I called my dad and told him times were tough. 'Well, it was for a rainy day,' Dad told me. 'And it's raining.' " Selling under duress, Jerry is getting about 30 cents on the dollar.
Ironically, $1.5 million in tobacco money garnered on taxpayers' behalf is used by MPAAT for "political action" that has taxpayer Jerry raiding his loose change and selling his memorabilia, taxpayer Greg selling his home, and both men fearing for their jobs. No matter. Jerry and Greg don't fit the plan.
"People think that people that hang around in neighborhood bars are all alcoholics," Jerry said. "That's not true. Stasiu's is where people meet their friends. Where they socialize. It's part of the neighborhood."
"I'm afraid it won't be here long," Greg said.
"So what," say the powerful, the influential and the arrogant.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Sep. 15 2005,10:31 am
message
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 15 2005,12:32 pm
If they need to poisen people to remain in business - screw 'em... time to find a different way to make a living...
that's a novel thought...
if another cigarette is never smoked that certainly wouldn't be a bad thing - only self-centered people like Geo believe that stopping smoking is a bad thing...
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 15 2005,12:39 pm
| Quote (irisheyes @ Sep. 15 2005,10:03am) | ||||
I know what you mean, I get sick of seeing so many obituaries in the paper of people dieing of second-hand smoke.
You know what makes me mad... Getting gum on my shoes... People who chew gum are inconsiderate... We should outlaw gum... |
First of all - most of the obits don't say why a person died...
you can poo-poo it all you want - but I say
up yours...I hate stepping in gum as well - I advocate the same things for people that spit their gum on the ground that I do for smokers that throw their cigarettes on the ground - a heavy fine for littering...
let me know if anyone ever dies from chewing ABC gum - and maybe I'll help get it banned - dipstick...
Posted by TameThaTane on Sep. 15 2005,2:32 pm
REPO just wants to JAIL! JAIL! JAIL! He gets a warm fuzzy feeling inside when he dreams of all the abortion murderers and cigarette drug users getting locked up!Repo's message to society---->
Kind of like the male version of the movie "Carrie".
Posted by GEOKARJO on Sep. 15 2005,3:19 pm
Where are those Doctors when you need them??Obese Children equals child abuse???
Some people, whether it is natural or on purpose, can see thru a keyhole with both eyes!!
Posted by irisheyes on Sep. 15 2005,10:06 pm
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Sep. 15 2005,12:39pm) |
| you can poo-poo it all you want - but I say up yours... |
Touche repo...
I haven't heard a response that rationale, and well thought out since first grade...
Have you ever considered starting a debating team for the special olympics...
| Quote |
| let me know if anyone ever dies from chewing ABC gum - and maybe I'll help get it banned - dipstick... |
Have you ever known anyone who has died from second hand smoke...
Can you give me a decent response without using remarks like poo-poo, and up yours...
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 15 2005,10:33 pm
Here's a decent response...but don't act all pious with me about getting a smart ass retort to your suggestion that we ban chewing gum because I suggested we ban tobacco...
If you don't want it thrown back on you - don't throw it on me...
in any event here are some 2nd hand smoking facts put out by the American Lung Association...
with the kind of numbers that they cite I am guessing we all know, will know or have known a person that has died, is dying or will die from 2nd hand smoke...
only the thickest skulls in the house will deny it...
Secondhand Smoke Fact Sheet
November 2004
Secondhand smoke, also know as environmental tobacco smoke, is a mixture of the smoke given off by the burning end of a cigarette, pipe or cigar and the smoke exhaled from the lungs of smokers. It is involuntarily inhaled by nonsmokers, lingers in the air hours after cigarettes have been extinguished and can cause or exacerbates a wide range of adverse health effects, including cancer, respiratory infections, and asthma.
Secondhand smoke has been classified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as a known cause of cancer in humans (Group A carcinogen).
Secondhand smoke causes approximately 3,000 lung cancer deaths and 35,000 heart disease deaths in adult nonsmokers in the United States each year
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 15 2005,10:37 pm
Here are some more facts from the American Lung Association regarding 2nd hand smoke...stick these in your pipe and smoke 'em...
Nonsmokers exposed to environmental smoke are 25 percent more likely to have coronary heart diseases compared to nonsmokers not exposed to smoke.
Nonsmokers exposed to secondhand smoke at work are at increased risk for adverse health effects. Levels of ETS in restaurants and bars were found to be 2 to 5 times higher than in residences with smokers and 2 to 6 times higher than in office workplaces.
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 15 2005,10:39 pm
Second hand smoke is killing infants...Secondhand smoke is especially harmful to young children. Secondhand smoke is responsible for between 150,000 and 300,000 lower respiratory tract infections in infants and children under 18 months of age, resulting in between 7,500 and 15,000 hospitalizations each year, and causes 1,900 to 2,700 sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) deaths in the United States annually.
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 15 2005,10:41 pm
For more information on secondhand smoke, please review the Tobacco Morbidity and Mortality Trend Report as well as our Lung Disease Data publication in the Data and Statistics section of our website, or call the American Lung Association at 1-800-LUNG-USA (1-800-586-4872).
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 15 2005,10:46 pm
The figures I have posted here are just figures for the US of A. Extrapulate those figures around the world and you can see what a killer tobacco really is - and keep in mind those figures are just for non-smokers victimized by smokers...it doesn't begin to count the dumbasses that are actually dying of "firsthand" smoke...
selfish sons-a-bitches...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Sep. 15 2005,10:46 pm
Repo I agree with you and the above two post, however I believe it is the property owners right to decide and not the state. Sorry no kids are allowed in the bars. It is the choice of the adult to enter that enviroment making an informed desision. I don't smoke in my home, around children or those who are not comfortable with it, or in eating establishments I respect those around me.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Sep. 15 2005,10:56 pm
Minneapolis Clean air crusader BustedFeds Allege Mpls. Councilman Accepted Bribes
(WCCO) A Minneapolis City Councilman is being investigated on allegations of bribery and extortion, a federal affidavit released Friday afternoon said.
Federal agents are investigating allegations G. Dean Zimmermann of Ward 6 accepted thousands of dollars from a witness in exchange for promises of influence while acting as a Minneapolis City Council member and a member of the city's Zoning and Planning Committee.
Members of the FBI's corruption division spent three hours in Zimmermann's house Thursday afternoon, removing files, computers and campaign materials. Forty individual items were confiscated.
Allegedly, Zimmermann met many times with a witness who was working on a construction project in South Minneapolis. The witness, who officials said contacted the FBI in May 2005, worked with the federal agents to collect evidence against Zimmermann.
The witness told federal agents he approached Zimmermann to help get a zoning permit he needed and was told by Zimmermann he needed to pay Zimmermann's outstanding legal bill or help contribute to Zimmermann's re-election campaign.
In June, the FBI said when the witness asked how he could gain the support of Zimmermann, the councilman was on tape saying "money, money, money."
The FBI said they gave the witness $5,000 of bribe money to give to Zimmermann, which the councilman allegedly accepted. Many of the meetings were audio and video taped with the witness's consent.
< http://wcco.com/politics/local_story_252193345.html >
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 15 2005,10:57 pm
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Sep. 15 2005,10:46pm) |
| Repo I agree with you and the above two post, however I believe it is the property owners right to decide and not the state. Sorry no kids are allowed in the bars. It is the choice of the adult to enter that enviroment making an informed desision. I don't smoke in my home, around children or those who are not comfortable with it, or in eating establishments I respect those around me. |
Repo I agree with you
It is much too complicated a topic to say - hey all of us selfish assholes want to smoke - why can't we buy our own little bar and smoke until we die...
it would be one thing if all of you bastards that are killing yourselves would just go and die in some dark hole somewhere - but you don't...
society pays for your health care - and not everyone is as courteous as you CLAIM to be - with your extreme sensitivity to non-smokers...
personally i doubt you are sensitive to non-smokers at all...
the point really is - why would we as a society - hell, as the human race with intelligence - why would we purposely inhale poisen and think that is OK to do...
George and any of your buddies - let me ask you a question...
based on your theories about smoking - would you stop someone from "huffing" paint or sniffing glue???
let's say they just wanted to huff some paint or sniff some glue in the privace of their own home - or maybe in their own little glue sniffing bar that they bought - is that OK...
Posted by irisheyes on Sep. 16 2005,1:00 am
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Sep. 15 2005,10:39pm) |
| Second hand smoke is killing infants... Secondhand smoke is especially harmful to young children. Secondhand smoke is responsible for between 150,000 and 300,000 lower respiratory tract infections in infants and children under 18 months of age, resulting in between 7,500 and 15,000 hospitalizations each year, and causes 1,900 to 2,700 sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) deaths in the United States annually. |
Do you have the number of infants that die of second hand smoke in bars...
Oh, wait, infants aren't supposed to be in bars...
Posted by TameThaTane on Sep. 16 2005,1:52 am
What's truly sick is that many of you folks want the right to kill yourselves with cigs, yet at the same time want to jail and ruin other peoples lives for smoking pot in their own homes.It's truly sick.
Posted by Whiskero on Sep. 16 2005,8:27 am
Speaking of stepping in chewing gum.. On dish last week, they have a program called Dirty Jobs. One of the highlighted jobs for the week was a business that cleans gum off of sidewalks in front of business establishments. Also the city (this was L.A.) pays these guys to just clean off sidewalks elsewhere. They are cleaning in front of stores that have literally hundreds of wads of gum on the sidewalk everyday. They basically steam clean each piece and it just disintegrates into the air. It was really something. Never have heard of it before.
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 16 2005,8:43 am
Interesting...neither have I...
but it is a good point that the city has to pay someone to do it - just like they have to pay someone to clean up the cigarette butts...
when was the last time you saw someone throw a cigarette on the ground and stamp it out or toss it out the window of their car...
now - when was the last time - IF EVER - that you heard of a cop giving someone a littering ticket for doing that...
maybe because so many of them do it themselves they don't issue tags for littering with cigarettes - but it is a filthy thing to do and I think it's high time they started doing something about it...
hit the smokers in the pocketbook...
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 16 2005,8:50 am
| Quote (irisheyes @ Sep. 16 2005,1:00am) | ||
Do you have the number of infants that die of second hand smoke in bars... Oh, wait, infants aren't supposed to be in bars... |
C;mon smart guy...
ignore all the other arguments and focus on the infants - that was just part of an answer to your earlier smart ass jab about all the obituaries that show people dying from 2nd hand smoke...
feel free to answer the question about huffing paint and sniffing glue - would you interfere with the right of people to do that...
I hope your answer is more than just another juvenile attempt at a battle of wits - in which you are truly defenseless...
go ahead and defend your position - the entire forum waits with anticipation...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Sep. 16 2005,12:25 pm
Repo come down to Eddies bar and talk your talk one of two things will happen you will be asked to leave and if you don't and you continue to talk your talk you will be the only one in there.
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 16 2005,1:43 pm
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Sep. 16 2005,12:25pm) |
| Repo come down to Eddies bar and talk your talk one of two things will happen you will be asked to leave and if you don't and you continue to talk your talk you will be the only one in there. |
Is Eddie's the biggest dive in Albert Lea or is Duck's Tap...
by the way George - come to my office and talk your talk or blow smoke around - and I would have to get in line to slap your cigarette out of your mouth...
feel better now with your nonsense post of inviting me to Eddies Bar...
I'll go in there to inhale your 2nd hand smoke the day after hell freezes over...
of course you might be a tour guide down there by that time...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Sep. 16 2005,2:00 pm
You just proved my point that smoke haters are disrespectful and violent. I offered no violence in my post we would rather leave you to your rants than to paticipate in them. People would get sick of you so fast when they drove by and seen your car there they would not stop. Since your crap don't stink we are not worthy.
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 16 2005,4:12 pm
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Sep. 16 2005,2:00pm) |
| You just proved my point that smoke haters are disrespectful and violent. I offered no violence in my post we would rather leave you to your rants than to paticipate in them. People would get sick of you so fast when they drove by and seen your car there they would not stop. Since your crap don't stink we are not worthy. |
Wrong again...
my crap stinks - but my breath doesn't...
I have no idea what your point is anyway - as if there is any chance that I'll be in Eddie's anytime soon - if that place was on fire I wouldn't piss on it to put it out...
you didn't offer violence in your post - but you said I would be asked to leave if I spoke out in favor of the smoking ban...
and I simply told you that if you came to my office smoking a cigarette someone would slap it out of your face...
I hardly think that denying you the ability to smoke in my office rates as being worse than you and your crowd trying to deny me the right to free speech in Dead Eddie's Bar...
you have to admit - that place is a friggin' hole...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Sep. 16 2005,4:54 pm
Many bars have come and gone in the 68 years Eddies Has been in business.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Sep. 16 2005,5:21 pm
I was a HIPPY idealist in my youth. I wuz smarht. I knew waht to dew.... I wantied to SAVCVVVVEEEE the WUURRRLLLLDDDD!Now I'm a bit more selecttive.: no longer believe I have the god given right to make others' decisions for them.
Posted by irisheyes on Sep. 17 2005,12:51 am
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Sep. 16 2005,8:50am) |
| ignore all the other arguments and focus on the infants - that was just part of an answer to your earlier smart ass jab about all the obituaries that show people dying from 2nd hand smoke... |
I pointed that out because of how insanely stupid it was to bring up a study about infants when you're talking about bars. As for the other studies, unless you post the raw data at how they got those numbers, they're useless. Junk science is used constantly by people lobbying for smoke free bars & restaurants (it's used on the other side also, I'll admit). The only way to get to the truth is by reviewing how they got those numbers.
I asked you if you've every known anyone who's died of secondhand smoke, and you cut & paste a bunch of estimates from a lobbying group. Do you really expect me to not be skeptical? Your numbers come from the same group that tries to deny the economic impact of smoking bans on their homepage.
< PDF from American Lung Association >
It won't bother me if I can't smoke in a bar or restaurant. What bothers me is that you aren't giving the business owner a choice, while the customers can easily breath clean air BY NOT GOING THERE.
Huffing paint and sniffing glue? When it comes to the health aspect, neither one has any benefit, and you shouldn't do it. That being said, how much of an economic impact would be felt from banning huffing paint & sniffing glue? Sorry repo, apples and oranges. I've said before I'm looking at this not as a health issue, since no one is forcing you to go to a smoking establishment. You have every opportunity to boycott all businesses that allow smoking. If you work in a bar that allows smoking, and you don't like it, you may feel differently if they ban it, and you lose your job due to loss of business.
| Quote |
| I hope your answer is more than just another juvenile attempt at a battle of wits - in which you are truly defenseless... |
We're all in aww of your amazing comebacks repo...
In a battle of wits no one is immune to the dreaded middle finger icon...
Or such witty remarks as "poo-poo it all you want", or "up yours"...
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 17 2005,10:56 am
| Quote |
| "I asked you if you've every known anyone who's died of secondhand smoke, and you cut & paste a bunch of estimates from a lobbying group. Do you really expect me to not be skeptical? Your numbers come from the same group that tries to deny the economic impact of smoking bans on their homepage." |
So you dismiss the American Lung Association as merely some lobbying group...
and you somehow think that whether I personally know someone that has died of 2nd hand smoke or not is germane...
and you want to criticize me for cutting and pasting a bunch of facts about the hazards of 2nd hand smoke in response to your question to me:
| Quote |
| Have you ever known anyone who has died from second hand smoke... Can you give me a decent response without using remarks like poo-poo, and up yours... |
evidently - people who are much more educated on the topic than you or I state that approximately 40,000 people die as a result of 2nd hand smoke every year...
obviously thousands more are afflicted with diseases that are debilitating to them...
only the intellectually dishonest would put forth the notion that 2nd hand smoke doesn't kill people...
one must be ethically bankrupt to support smokers "rights"...
what an absolute joke...
like I stated earlier - if you selfish bastards could ingest your smoke and not exhale it - and not depend on us non-smokers to take care of you when you look like a rotten bannana and need an iron lung with an oxygen tent - then I would give a crap less if you wanted to take the slow road to suicide...
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 17 2005,11:09 am
As I suspected there is a significant corelation between education level and smoking - as well as between economic levels...for example - an estimated 23.3% of all adults that responded to a survey put out by the Center for Disease Control are current smokers...
however - 47.2% of all adults that did not finish high school are smokers - while only 8.4% of adults with college degrees are smokers...
31.7% of people that live below the poverty level are smokers - while only 20.9% of those at or above the poverty level were smokers...
There are some obvious conclusions that can be drawn from this study:
#1. The dumber you are the more likely you are to be a smoker.
#2. The poorer you are the more likely you are to be a smoker.
Of course by reading George and Irish Eye's posts most were probably able to discern that already...
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 17 2005,11:20 am
The next time I use a disparaging remark when refering to you two bozos I don't want any feedback - I can back it up statistacally... sorry about the finger guy - it just seems so fitting for someone that calls himself Irish Eyes...
Posted by Wareagle11B on Sep. 17 2005,8:12 pm
Repo chill a little bit please. 
The point Irish is trying to make here is that this choice is for the OWNERS of a particular business to make and not the government. We need to keep the government out of our private lives and business or the next thing they will be trying to regulate is what goes on in our homes. Irish is right in that YOU have a choice in whether or not you want to go into an establishment that allows smoking and thus denying your business to that particular place. Yes I do smoke but when I go out with family or friends who don't smoke I gladly accomodate them when they wish to sit in the non smoking section and I have no problem going into a place that does not allow smoking at all. Smoking kills many people each year and I won't argue that but then what do we do with alcohol and all the other things that kill people as well. As for you paying for the healthcare of smokers, well we as smokers pay extra on our insurance and so we pay dearly for our habit. If you think having the government stepping in and regulating your personal life then by all means keep up your drive on this subject but if you think that it is a bad idea to allow this to happen then do the right thing and don't go to a bar or restaraunt that allows smoking. You have nothing to lose but the bar and restaraunt owners do if the government continues to force this issue.Oh yeah and Repo this one is for you but it is all in fun bubba
Posted by TameThaTane on Sep. 17 2005,8:58 pm
| Quote |
| We need to keep the government out of our private lives and business or the next thing they will be trying to regulate is what goes on in our homes. |
That's precisely what Repo'd like to do though.
Posted by irisheyes on Sep. 17 2005,11:31 pm
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Sep. 17 2005,10:56am) |
| So you dismiss the American Lung Association as merely some lobbying group... |
I'm skeptical of the studies & statistics that come from any organization with a strong political motive. Do you remember when the city hired a consulting firm to find out what residents thought of a sales tax increase. The results came back, and there's a headline on the tribune saying "residents favor sales tax increase". What they didn't mention until you read more about it is that there were only 2 options, do you want your property taxes raised, or do you want the sales tax raised. Reminds me of something a teacher would tell me. If a toothpaste ad says that 10 out of 10 dentists prefer their brand, they might not mention that the only other option the dentist was given was, "do you prefer brushing with our brand compared to not brushing at all"?
Obviously I realize the health studies aren't anywhere near that simple, but I think you get the point. Studies, statistics, graphs, etc. are used constantly to sway public opinion, start digging a little deeper before you believe it, regardless of where it comes from. I went to the website, I see the numbers, but no mention of a margin for error, or how it was conducted. I'm not saying I know they're wrong, because I don't, I'm just saying do some actual research before you believe that kind of thing.
| Quote |
| evidently - people who are much more educated on the topic than you or I state that approximately 40,000 people die as a result of 2nd hand smoke every year... |
Dang, them fancy people got degrees framed on they walls an everythin... We'd best not ask how they got them numbers and just follow along as if it's the infallible word of God himself!
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 17 2005,11:34 pm
What about a non-smoker that really wants to go into a particular establishment - for karoke or whatever...but it's full of smoke - doesn't that person have a right to go and be with his or her friends without being nailed with cigarette smoke...
I believe he does...
for all of you smokers - what do you get out of it...
Posted by irisheyes on Sep. 17 2005,11:44 pm
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Sep. 17 2005,11:20am) |
| sorry about the finger guy - it just seems so fitting for someone that calls himself Irish Eyes... |
Why? Are you saying you don't particularly like Irish people, or that you just don't like the nickname irisheyes? Don't really care either way, just odd for someone to want to flip me off for that username.
Don't hate me just because I like irish folk music ("when irisheyes are smiling")...
Hate me because I'm one of the guys sitting next to you at the bar blowing smoke in your eyes...
I didn't realize I was endangering your life all this time...
I guess I should turn myself in for criminally negligent homicide...
Posted by Botto 82 on Sep. 18 2005,1:12 am
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Sep. 17 2005,11:34pm) |
| What about a non-smoker that really wants to go into a particular establishment - for karoke or whatever... but it's full of smoke - doesn't that person have a right to go and be with his or her friends without being nailed with cigarette smoke... I believe he does... for all of you smokers - what do you get out of it... |
This is truly the stupidest thing I've seen here, and I've been reading a lot of Jim Hanson posts lately.
The dive bar scene is a package deal. Smoke, booze, drunk chicks, azzhole pool players, cheesy bands, bad karaoke singers, and so on come part and parcel with the locale. I'll bet smoke never kept you from going down to the 'Gon and stuffing some one-dollar bills down some young thing's G-string, so give it a rest, already. You're not fooling anybody.
What if I want to go to the demolition derby, but I don't want hearing damage? Should I lobby the fair board to require mufflers on all the entrants' cars? By your logic, this is fair game as well.
If smoking bars go under, it should be economic forces that govern this, not some euphorian left-wing notion that the government needs to step in once more and save us from ourselves.
Posted by Wareagle11B on Sep. 18 2005,4:25 pm
Repo I don't drink. I chose to stop after many years of drinking and many mornings of not remembering the night before. I still go to Eddies to see my friends. If cigarette smoke is what is keeping you from going into a particular establishment then perhaps that place isn't worth your time nor deserving of your cash. Botto I agree with most of your post. Sometimes we have to deal with things we don't necessarily like but where smoking and private establishments are concerned it is best to keep the Government out of it.
Posted by TameThaTane on Sep. 18 2005,7:51 pm
When you have blackout episodes...THAT's hard drinking. The kind that kills brain cells. That's hard drugs. Odd thing is, is that I'm sure you've been trained to believe Johnny the pot head is doing the real drugs as you see it in your mind.
Posted by Wareagle11B on Sep. 18 2005,8:36 pm
Actually 3T I don't have any issues with you partaking of your favorite herb. As I said before and will once more say just do not do it around me. I have been around folks who smoke pot and as soon as they light up the smoke makes me very very ill so I leave the room. Now if you are talking about the "harder" drugs and their use well then yes I do have an issue with that.
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 18 2005,8:50 pm
| Quote |
What if I want to go to the demolition derby, but I don't want hearing damage? Should I lobby the fair board to require mufflers on all the entrants' cars? By your logic, this is fair game as well. |
Let me know when noise from demolition derbies causes death...
FYI - you won't catch me in the 'Gon doing anything...
as to going in the bars it was strictly a hypothetical...
I don't care one bit about going into the bars - I don't drink at all and haven't for years...
and I took one drag off of a cigarette - one time when I was about 16 years old...
that's all I needed to realize how stupid it is...
Posted by Liberal on Sep. 18 2005,10:05 pm
| Quote |
Healthy effects found in Irish smoking ban By Patricia Reaney, Reuters | September 18, 2005 LONDON -- Ireland's nationwide ban on smoking in all workplaces has not only cleaned up the air in pubs and restaurants, but it has also improved the health of the people who work there, researchers have found. Since Ireland became the first country in the world to impose the ban nationwide in March 2004, other countries and cities have followed its example. Professor Luke Clancy, a specialist on respiratory disease at Trinity College in Dublin, has shown that in pubs, particulate matter in the air -- a product of smoke pollution -- has decreased, and that workers in those environments are breathing better. ''This is the first time that we have measured the pollution and measured the effects," Clancy said in an interview. ''We found a dramatic decrease in particles," he added. ''There is something like a 70 percent decrease in particles in the pub and that makes it quite similar to outdoor air in Dublin, which is quite good." Clancy and a colleague, Dr. Patrick Goodman, measured particles in more than 40 pubs before the ban was enforced and then a year afterward, to gauge its impact. In research that was presented at a recent meeting of the European Respiratory Society in Copenhagen, the two scientists said levels of two types of particles, PM2.5 and PM10, had declined by 53 percent and 87.6 percent over the course of a year. They also recruited 81 male bar workers and measured their lung function before and a year after the ban became law. The men also answered a questionnaire about their health and smoking habits. ''We found a 30-40 percent decrease in symptoms, both respiratory and irritant," said Clancy, referring to shortness of breath, coughing, and watery eyes. Lung function in the nonsmokers also improved, but it continued to deteriorate in smokers. A study in Norway, in which restaurant and bar workers were interviewed by telephone, showed similar improvements after a smoking ban began there. Smoking, a leading risk factor of lung cancer and other illnesses, is the biggest cause of preventable death. Research has shown that secondhand smoke, or passive smoking, kills more than 600 people each year in Britain alone. Sweden, Italy, Malta, Cuba, New Zealand, and Bangladesh have also introduced bans on smoking in public places. Other countries have announced plans to curb smoking. |
Posted by irisheyes on Sep. 18 2005,10:37 pm
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Sep. 18 2005,8:50pm) |
| and I took one drag off of a cigarette - one time when I was about 16 years old... |
Did the person next to you keel over and die once you exhaled? (Sorry, couldn't resist)
Jokes aside, I realize that secondhand smoke can cause health problems. When I was a kid I had ear infections atleast once a year. Even though I smoke I've just had 2 ear infections in the past 5 years, which happens to be how long I've lived somewhere where nobody smokes inside. I've given repo such a hard time about his studies because nobody seems to question the credibility of those numbers. I'm not saying it isn't possible, but people should see how these conclusions were made before they start thinking if they walk through the smoking section at Applebees their life with flash before their eyes!
One cig left tonight, than I'll quit (you wouldn't believe how many times I've said that). This'll be the 3rd time I've tried to quit this summer.
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 20 2005,7:07 am
| Quote (irisheyes @ Sep. 18 2005,10:37pm) |
| I've given repo such a hard time about his studies because nobody seems to question the credibility of those numbers. I'm not saying it isn't possible, but people should see how these conclusions were made before they start thinking if they walk through the smoking section at Applebees their life with flash before their eyes! One cig left tonight, than I'll quit (you wouldn't believe how many times I've said that). This'll be the 3rd time I've tried to quit this summer. |
OK...
fair enough...
you ask where they get their numbers...
I would imagine surveys and various other long term and expensive studies...
you don't see the cigarette compnies putting up much of a stink to refute their conclusions...
remember when all the tobacco executives went before congress and stated that they didn't believe that cigarette smoking was addictive or bad for your health...
wow - chasing the almighty dollar...
the number of people that have died as a result of cigarettes over the years is absolutely mindboggling...
those numbers would dwarf tha death count from all the various wars...
I could post plenty of info on 2nd hand smoking and ear infections as well...
nice to see that you're going to quit - I hope George and some of his cronies join you...
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 22 2005,1:40 pm
how's the quitting smoking plan going Irish???hope you're having some luck...
anyone else going to join Irish???
a person that smokes one pack a day - and quits smoking will save about $1300 a year for the cost of cigs alone...
that was using a cost factor of $3.50/pack - is that about right???
a pack and a half pushes that figure pretty close to 2 grand a year...
if you don't care about your health - and you don't care about your appearance - and you don't care about your breath - and you don't care about non-smokers - how about your pocketbook???
Posted by irisheyes on Sep. 22 2005,6:06 pm
On my 4th day smokefree. As long as I don't cheat like the times before, I'll be all right. If I fool myself into believing I can "just have one", I'll be right back into chain smoking again.I got pretty weak Tuesday night, the gum wasn't doing it, so I went out and got some patches to get me by the first week. Ironically, that's the same day that I got a big envelope from Camel with a bunch of coupons for 2 or 3 bucks off when I buy two packs. LOL
Thanks for asking
Posted by Pegleg Pete on Sep. 22 2005,6:11 pm
Irish,Spend $8 and get "Allen Carr's Easyway to Stop Smoking" from Amazon. Amazing book. It's designed for people who are still smoking, but it'll take away all your pain and misery. I read it and I quit almost accidentally.
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 24 2005,2:58 pm
I like how some smokers claim to be so considerate of non-smokers... yet when the Northside mall ruled that there would be no smoking in the mall - Geo Gillespie had an all out fit...
shouting and carrying on - even had to be told extra sternly to not smoke in the food court...
nice bit of consideration for non-smokers - what a crock...
Posted by TameThaTane on Sep. 24 2005,3:08 pm
How about non smokers being tolerant of smokers?
Posted by GEOKARJO on Sep. 24 2005,3:28 pm
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Sep. 24 2005,2:58pm) |
| I like how some smokers claim to be so considerate of non-smokers... yet when the Northside mall ruled that there would be no smoking in the mall - Geo Gillespie had an all out fit... shouting and carrying on - even had to be told extra sternly to not smoke in the food court... nice bit of conseration for non-smokers - what a crock... |
I thinks you got your facts confused as usual
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 24 2005,4:19 pm
| Quote (TameThaTane @ Sep. 24 2005,3:08pm) |
| How about non smokers being tolerant of smokers? |
tolerant of people that are poisening us - I don't think so...
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 24 2005,4:20 pm
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Sep. 24 2005,3:28pm) |
| I thinks you got your facts confused as usual |
OK...
how about you set the record straight - Menthol Breath...
Posted by TameThaTane on Sep. 24 2005,4:33 pm
If you drive a car, YOU poison us! Get off YeR high horse.
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 24 2005,5:29 pm
| Quote (TameThaTane @ Sep. 24 2005,4:33pm) |
| If you drive a car, YOU poison us! Get off YeR high horse. |
I live in George's pad over on Lloyd Place - neither one of us drives a car...
but to be serious...
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 24 2005,8:48 pm
| Quote (TameThaTane @ Sep. 24 2005,4:33pm) |
| If you drive a car, YOU poison us! Get off YeR high horse. |
I drive a hybrid - and I look forward to the day that we can all drive hydro-powered vehicles...
and additionally - me or people that work for me are taking cars off the street every day of the week...
so, while you're dickin' your dog - and fantasizing about buying 3 young girls new mustangs that you can't afford - I'm out taking back what is not paid for...
by the way, squirt - did you ever get past the Tyvek stage on your dream house...
Posted by TameThaTane on Sep. 25 2005,1:51 pm
Sure you drive a hybrid? You're so full of it I can see bunghole grease dripping out your eyelids. 
Posted by REPOMAN on Sep. 25 2005,3:56 pm
first you dream about 3 young girls you can claim as your daughters... next you dram about a big expensive house you're going to build...
now you're into bunghole grease...
what next BozoThaClown...
Posted by ICU812 on Sep. 28 2005,8:38 am
Another one bites the dust andis on its way to a county near you. If you are a bar owner in Taxborn County you may want to start surveying your building for a good location for an outdoor smoking deck, build it they will come. | Quote |
| Posted on Wed, Sep. 28, 2005 Smoke-free ordinance takes effect in Meeker County on Saturday Associated Press LITCHFIELD, Minn. - A smoking ban takes effect in Meeker County on Saturday. All workplaces must be smoke-free in the central Minnesota county, but some businesses will have nearly two years to comply. Meeker County Public Health Educator Lisa Hicks-Ewald (EE'-wald) says businesses with a liquor license had until September tenth to apply for an exemption -- which would give them until August first of 2007 to adjust to the new ordinance. She says the county commissioners are hoping the Legislature will pass a statewide smoking ban within that time to level the playing field. Hicks-Ewald says the smoke-free ordinance is intended to protect public health. Opponents had argued the ban would hurt business at bars and restaurants. |
---
Posted by Scurvy Dog on Sep. 28 2005,9:06 am
Didn't they get around this in some states by the formation of "Smoker's Clubs"? If I remember correctly, some bars and lounges got around this by offering up membership (with nominal dues) for smokers, and also sold drinks. They simply changed their focus.Why would a non-smoker want to join a smoker's club?
Of course, I suppose if anyone tried that, the Smoke Nazis would show up in St. Paul claiming the smoker's club that they didn't even go to was somehow harming their health.
Posted by Madd Max on Sep. 29 2005,9:09 am
Tobacco 'fee' faces day in court Patricia Lopez and Dane Smith, Star Tribune
September 29, 2005
The first hearing in a high-stakes lawsuit that could blow a $401-million hole in the state's budget and eliminate the recently enacted 75-cents-a-pack fee on cigarettes takes the stage today in a St. Paul courtroom.
The suit filed last month by four major tobacco companies alleges that the so-called "health-impact fee" on all tobacco products, in effect since Aug. 1, violates a guarantee in the industry's $6.1 billion lawsuit settlement with the state in 1998.
Ramsey County District Judge Michael Fetsch will face a bevy of lawyers today as the high-stakes legal conflict opens. If the companies win, Gov. Tim Pawlenty and the Legislature would have to find a way to backfill $401 million in expected collections from the tobacco charge by enacting program cuts or other revenue raisers.
"We're pretty comfortable with our case," Attorney General Mike Hatch, who is defending the state's position, said in an interview this week. While the 1998 settlement prohibited the state from filing future claims against the major tobacco firms, it did not bar legislative action, Hatch said, and was never intended to limit its ability to impose taxes or fees.
"That's something the state would never give away as part of a lawsuit," Hatch said. "This is not a claim the state has made against the tobacco industry. A claim is a lawsuit. This is a law, passed by the Legislature."
Fee or tax?
Hatch contends that the tobacco companies' case hinges on a slender rhetorical reed -- that the health impact fee is not a tax. Since the national settlement with tobacco companies, 38 states have raised their tobacco taxes without legal challenge.
But because of Pawlenty's no-tax-increase pledge, Minnesota resorted to a different tactic to resolve its budget crisis. At the governor's behest, the Legislature passed the new fee to raise funds ostensibly for health care, although the bulk of the money actually went to schools.
And that is where tobacco companies think they have spotted a fatal flaw. Minnesota, which settled its own case against the tobacco companies and was not part of the national settlement, agreed in 1998 that it would not impose any additional "liabilities of any nature whatsoever ... whether legal, equitable or statutory ... for reimbursement for health care costs allegedly associated with use of or exposure to tobacco products."
Off to the side are the "non-settling" tobacco companies -- smaller firms that were not a part of the 1998 deal -- that have asked to intervene in today's case, oddly enough, on the state's side. The settling companies oppose the intervention and that will be one of the issues Fetsch will have to consider first.
The smaller companies fear that if Big Tobacco wins, their lesser-known products will be the only ones carrying the 75-cent-per-pack fee that has already driven some Minnesotans to border states to buy their smokes.
"That would create a substantial price advantage for the major manufacturers," said Brad Delapena, manager of Hatch's tax litigation division.
Delapena said the case against the state "boils down to semantics. They [tobacco companies] know this is really a tax. It was called a fee for political purposes and they're going to make some hay out of it."
In reality, he said, "it doesn't matter whether it's called a fee or a tax. The attorney general cannot -- and did not -- barter away the Legislature's authority to impose exactions on cigarettes." What the state did waive, he said, was the right to any future judicial claims.
A spokesman for the companies, David Howard, a communications representative for R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Co., responded with a statement that his company released at the time of the filing of the suit.
The companies "agreed to make substantial payments to the state to resolve all past, present and future liability relating to state health care expenditures allegedly attributed to tobacco use," the statement said. "The newly enacted HIF expressly states that its purpose is "to recover for the state health care costs related to or caused by tobacco use."
"The state is clearly trying to get paid twice," the statement said.
Pawlenty's view
In a legal brief filed last week, Pawlenty argued that even if former Attorney General Hubert Humphrey III did agree to waive the state's lawmaking power in the settlement, he overstepped his authority.
Minneapolis attorney Mike Ciresi, who negotiated the 1998 settlement, called the major tobacco manufacturers' arguments "disingenuous" and "total nonsense." The case would never have been brought, he said, "except for the folly of politicians who are unable to call something what it is: a tax."
Had the Legislature done so, he said, "they [tobacco companies] would never have been able to make even this phony claim." Even so, Ciresi -- who is not involved in the current dispute -- said he is confident the state will prevail.
"You can call it a tax, you can call it a fee, you can call it a chocolate malt," he said. "It doesn't matter. The court cannot abrogate the state's authority to tax and they [tobacco companies] know it."
A ruling against the state might lead to a special session of the Legislature to transform the fee into an actual tax that could stand up in court, or to find other ways to plug the hole in the state's two-year, $30 billion general fund budget.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Sep. 29 2005,11:30 am
Coming to you from the great State of New Joisy, probably one of the leading Cancer capitols, huge producer of toxic chemicals, once famous for beach depositories of medical waste, proud to boast having the top rated murder cities in the U.S., on and on and on ...I’m here to applaud two N.J. Assembly members for introducing a bill to prohibit smoking while driving. This new law, if enacted, will no doubt save millions of innocent people from being run down by some irresponsible (Bleeping) smoker, while at the same time, though removing a fraction more of his / her civil rights, preserve a few more gasps of breath the already Cancer ridden operator may have. Truly, a wonderful ambition I must say.
There is no telling how many accidents will be avoided by this law. Countless people have been involved in collisions with these (Bleeping) addicts while innocently snacking on a double beef patti, sipping a giant slush or that wake up brew, checking the navigation system, fiddling with the radio, reading the paper, makin a phone call or just applying makeup.
I sincerely wish all the best for the soon-to-be famous Assembly members and do hope that they have enough courage to ask their Proctologist to have their heads removed. Apparently the situation is critical.
Posted by Botto 82 on Sep. 29 2005,1:35 pm
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Sep. 29 2005,11:30am) |
| I sincerely wish all the best for the soon-to-be famous Assembly members and do hope that they have enough courage to ask their Proctologist to have their heads removed. Apparently the situation is critical. |
Posted by GEOKARJO on Sep. 30 2005,6:02 pm
Tonight at midnight three more bars will lock their doors for good thanks to the smoking ban. Now is the time for each and every one of you to write or better yet pick up the phone and call every commissioner and your city council members and the mayor. Be sure to call Peter McLaughlin first. In spite of the fact the smoke haters have lied about everything since the beginning, they continue to try to convince Peter it will be political suicide in his quest to become our new mayor of Minneapolis if he votes to amend the ban.
They must not remember Heather Harden out in Bloomington, staunch supporter for the smoking ban, she lost in the primary. She publicly stated her position on the smoking ban contributed to her defeat. Two other council candidates ran opposing smoking bans won. Go Klassen and Algeo.
Bar owners have begun taking down Peter's signs supporting him for mayor as he continues to sit on the fence. Not quite ready to have a bonfire with them, but soon. Remind Peter a Ramsey ban would still leave Hennepin County with 98% of the bars and restaurants smoke free.
If you are out and about tonight stop by and wish the people at Porters, Molly Quinn's and Breakaway your best.
Sue Jeffers
612-384-4374
Posted by GEOKARJO on Sep. 30 2005,6:03 pm
That is 26 Bars That has closed in Minneapolis. Since the Banned was enacted. 2700 people lost jobs.
Posted by nphilbro on Sep. 30 2005,6:35 pm
My county has been smoke free in all bars and restaurant going on a hear and half now. They only gave a 30 day notice for compliance.Most were worried that bars would go out of business because everyone would flock to the Indian Casinos.
There doesn't seem to be much sign of the scare coming true. They all have patios where people can smoke.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 01 2005,6:44 pm
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Sep. 30 2005,6:03pm) |
| That is 26 Bars That has closed in Minneapolis. Since the Banned was enacted. 2700 people lost jobs. |
First of all - if it were true - I would say great...
but more importantly it's bullcrap...
who would have expected anything less from our Marlboro dragging, mole boxing, lying, Eddie's cheerleading cowboy...
if you want to believe his warped figures - go ahead...
#1. This ban has been in place for 6 months - IF 26 bars have closed in 6 months how can we say that all or even if any of them have closed because of the ban...
#2. George the prevaricator tells us that 2700 have lost their jobs because of the ban - so he is telling us that each of these 26 bars have 104 employees...
Ask yourself this - is George being intellectually dishonest when he reports these BS figures - I can tell you he is...
you and your figures are all wet George - go back to boxing your clown you dunce...
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 01 2005,6:45 pm
Hennepin County: No smoke, but there's ire Mike Kaszuba, Star Tribune
September 22, 2005 SMOKE0922
?
?
Hennepin County's six-month-old smoking ban has had a mixed impact on bars and restaurants, showing that suburban businesses had declining liquor sales but that those in Minneapolis had better-than-average liquor and food sales, a new county study says.
The study, which looked at sales in 2003, 2004 and 2005 and was released Wednesday, has become a centerpiece in a debate over whether the state's most populous county should scale back its far-reaching ordinance. The ban, which took effect in March, made Hennepin County the largest unit of government in Minnesota to prohibit smoking in bars and restaurants.
Over much of the past summer, however, bar owners have pushed the county to amend the ban to exempt so-called traditional bars where food sales are a secondary source of income. Bar owners have testified in large numbers for the change at County Board meetings, and another rally is scheduled today outside the Hennepin County Government Center in downtown Minneapolis.
While inconclusive, the study is likely to give both sides ammunition.
The study said that liquor sales at 497 outlets grew at a slower rate during the second quarters of 2004 and 2005, when the ban began to take effect, than they did during the same period in 2003 and 2004. Anoka County, which does not have a smoking ban and lies immediately north of Hennepin County, had increasing liquor sales during the same time, the study said.
However, the study added that "it is not known whether, or to what extent, this is due to the Hennepin County smoking ordinance."
Meanwhile, the controversial ban has spilled into the mayoral campaign in Minneapolis, where Peter McLaughlin, a county commissioner, is challenging Mayor R.T. Rybak. McLaughlin originally voted for the ban, but has generally sympathized with the bar owners and his vote is seen as crucial to whether the ordinance is amended. Rybak has strongly supported the ban.
In an interview before Wednesday's study was released, Commissioner Mark Stenglein agreed that McLaughlin was pivotal as to whether -- and how soon -- an attempt to amend the ban would occur. "I need his vote to make any changes to the deal. So the ball's somewhat in his court," said Stenglein, who has pushed for an amendment.
McLaughlin, who is being lobbied by both sides, could not be reached for comment Wednesday.
Whether a move to amend the ban could procedurally take place before the Nov. 8 mayoral election is unclear. A proposed amendment would likely require a public hearing, and after today's meeting, the County Board has just two regular meetings before Nov. 8.
"I would consider any further action by the board a step backward," said Commissioner Gail Dorfman, a chief proponent of the smoking ban.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 01 2005,8:01 pm
Posted on Wed, Sep. 28, 2005 M O R E N E W S F R O M
• Smoking
• Medicine
• Health
Bingo, pull-tabs feel the burn of the ban
Proponents say charitable-gambling sales have been waning for two decades
BY MARTIGA LOHN
Associated Press
Less than six months after smoking was banned in Bloomington bars, South Town Bingo closed for good two weeks ago.
Business began falling off as soon as the smoking ban took effect, said Jim Algeo, president of the crime-prevention association that ran the bingo operation. About 70 percent of the bingo players smoked, he said.
"They stayed away in droves," Algeo told lawmakers on the House State Government Finance Committee Tuesday.
Algeo and other backers of charitable gambling — pull-tabs, bingo and other games — told lawmakers Tuesday that smoking bans have hurt their businesses in Hennepin and Ramsey counties.
"We've never seen anything like this," said King Wilson, executive director of Allied Charities of Minnesota. "The charities are being devastated in Hennepin and Ramsey."
But one proponent of a statewide smoking ban said even if the bans are to blame for the drop, long-term health care savings will outweigh any lost charitable-gambling receipts. Charitable gambling sales have been falling for the past two decades, according to Pat McKone, senior director of tobacco control for the American Lung Association of Minnesota.
"To just say this was the smoking ban is premature," McKone said. "The longer we see these studies in many different communities, the more we see the economic effect level out."
Charitable-gambling sales dropped nearly 22 percent in the first three months after Hennepin County nixed smoking in bars and restaurants in late March, said Tom Barrett, director of the Minnesota Gambling Control Board. The decline was nearly 10 percent in Ramsey County, where some bars still allow smoking.
Meanwhile, sales were up nearly 5 percent in Anoka County, which allows smoking in bars. Business also increased slightly in Dakota, Sherburne and Wright counties. But receipts fell 0.8 to 3.8 percent in Scott, Carver and Washington counties, which also don't have smoking bans.
Statewide charitable-gambling sales are down about 2 percent to 3 percent, Barrett said.
Charitable gambling is a $1.4 billion-a-year industry in Minnesota, bigger than in any other state. More than four-fifths of the proceeds are paid out in prizes, leaving 5 percent for charities and 4 percent for taxes. In South Town Bingo's case, about $125,000 a year went to crime-prevention activities, including school crossing guards and a youth center.
Hennepin and Ramsey counties and the cities of Minneapolis, Bloomington and Golden Valley enacted smoking bans on March 31. Except in Ramsey County, where establishments that sell more liquor than food can get exemptions, the bans prohibit smoking in all public restaurants and bars.
Officials are under pressure to modify the ban in Hennepin County, where bar owners say some patrons have crossed county lines to taverns where they can light up. An attempt to pass a statewide smoking ban failed earlier this year when a business-friendly House committee defeated the proposal.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 01 2005,8:06 pm
Sept. 26, 2005Last week Hennepin County released the long awaited Hennepin County Impact report. No surprise to the bars but they determined the study cannot definitely prove or disprove whether any change in taxable sales from establishments selling liquor was solely due to the smoking ban. With their eyes firmly closed, they refuse to see the truth printed in black and white before them.
Using Minnesota Department of Revenue taxable liquor and taxable non-liquor sales data for establishments reporting sales in the second quarter of 2003, 2004 and 2005. The smoking ban was implemented March 31, 2005. The data is for the 7 county metro area and does not adjust for inflation. (Inflation for Mpls/St. Paul area was 2.9% per year for all items, 1.3% per year for alcoholic beverages and 4.5% per year for food.)
The study pointed out the many influences on liquor sales include: local economy, population changes, weather, consumer preferences, and prices. My personal favorite, the study did not include reduced cleaning costs or employee health-related costs (so far bar owners have seen ZERO reduced cleaning costs as we are now cleaning up outside. Our insurance rates have not been reduced one dime, nor have our taxes for that matter). The study includes sales from liquor stores as well.
The study shows Hennepin County's second quarter 2005 liquor sales increased from the second quarter of 2004, but it was the smallest percentage increase among the seven metro counties and was down from the previous year's increase. Keep in mind Hennepin County is the highest populated county in the state including the cities of Minneapolis and Bloomington.
All 497 "same establishments" that filed on-sale liquor sales tax returns in all three quarters studied had a 0.15% increase in liquor sales in the second quarter of 2005 over 2004. The metro average increase was an increase of 1.6% and below Hennepin County's 3.5% increase in 2003-2004. Anoka County showed a 7.2% gain.
The graphs and charts clearly show businesses in some areas were more severely damaged than in other parts of the city. The smaller independent "blue collar" bars selling more alcohol than food were hardest hit and less likely to be able to make up the difference with additional food sales. Food sales were up overall.
The Impact Statement lists individual cities On-Sale liquor revenues in Bloomington as down 6.71% (they too determined the impact of the smoking ban was inconclusive, promptly every bar on the fourth floor at the Mall of America except Hooter's shut down). Plymouth showed a decline of 7.41%. Roseville, a partial ban in Ramsey County was down 11.3%.
Attached was a consolidated statement self reported by 14 bars comparing 2004 to 2005. March, April, May and June. Gross liquor receipts were down 12.2% in April, down 25.84% in May and down 26.67% in June. Charitable gambling receipts were down 18.38% in April, down 18.34% in May and down a whopping 51.07% in June.
Looking at the above, do you really think the smoking ban has not hurt some businesses? Inconclusive, my a**. Oppps, sorry.
The study includes a "study" linking exposure to SHS to cancer and cardiovascular disease for reference. Available at www.nih.gov/news/pr/may 2000/niehs-15.htm. . Guess what, it isn't a study, it is press release.
This press release specifically states "the listing of a substance in the Report is not a regulatory action and is based on the observed casual relationship" between SHS and cancer. It states "A listing in the Report does not by itself establish that a substance presents a cancer risk to an individual in daily life..., the report does not address or attempt to balance potential benefits of exposures to certain carcinogenic substance in special situations."
The press release goes on to reclassify some listing and oh yeah, oppps, they unlisted a couple they goofed on. They also do not list one pending litigation, they will wait to rule following the court's ruling.
The new listings in the 9th edition show the first ever attempt to designate ETS to be classified as a Class A carcinogen. Ignoring the fact this diluted "mixture" causes cancer. This would be similar to listing "urban air" as a Class A. Yes, it has carcinogenic components in it but should the general public be worried or does it justify a ban?
The press release goes on to list drinking alcohol, tanning beds and diesel fuel. Will they be banned next?
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 02 2005,5:01 am
George Gillespie... the tobacco propaganda machine...
George - what's your source of information that 26 bars in Hennepin County have went out of business since the smoking ban...
and what is your source that says that 2700 have lost their jobs because of the smoking ban...
any bar that has already gone out of business must have already been on very shaky ground to go down so fast...
remember what I posted before in the studies about smoking and intelligence - you're really nothing more than an amiable dunce...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 02 2005,2:35 pm
An individual who must use insults and resort to name calling to express their view demonstrats what?
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 02 2005,2:36 pm
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Oct. 02 2005,5:01am) |
| George Gillespie... the tobacco propaganda machine... George - what's your source of information that 26 bars in Hennepin County have went out of business since the smoking ban... and what is your source that says that 2700 have lost their jobs because of the smoking ban... any bar that has already gone out of business must have already been on very shaky ground to go down so fast... remember what I posted before in the studies about smoking and intelligence - you're really nothing more than an amiable dunce... |
I believe it is called the associated press.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 02 2005,11:14 pm
source it - post a link to back your trash...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 03 2005,1:53 am
Your post doesn't deserve any reply. Souce is at the top of each post above read it
Posted by Botto 82 on Oct. 03 2005,1:56 am
Repoman, you have all the appeal of a wad of used toilet paper.Go back to your Beavis and Butthead reruns and porn downloads. I'm sure you could tidy up mom's basement while you're down there.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 03 2005,1:57 am
Campaign to Repeal Tobacco "Fee" LaunchedTaxpayers League gives citizens a voice in postcard campaign
Author: David Strom
September 30, 2005
763-249-5952
PLYMOUTH—Consumers and retailers who have been hit hard by the new “health impact fee” on tobacco will be given an opportunity to voice their opinions directly to lawmakers through a new postcard campaign launched by the Taxpayers League of Minnesota.
Hundreds of retailers across Minnesota have been sent packages that include a poster and a hundred or more postcards for citizens to fill out and express their disapproval of the new tobacco “health impact fee.”
The postcards read: “Enough is enough! It’s not fair to balance the budget on the backs of smokers. High tobacco taxes are hurting my household budget, hurting Minnesota’s economy and driving jobs out of our state. It’s time to repeal this onerous increase and admit that raising tobacco ‘fees’ is a mistake.”
Each postcard has photographs of the legislators from the legislative district in which the retailer does business, along with phone numbers to reach the legislators and the Governor’s office.
The initial phase of the postcard campaign is focused on areas close to the state border, because many consumers have taken advantage of the opportunity to buy their tobacco products out of state.
“Thousands of Minnesotans will finally be given a voice through this campaign. This isn’t just about raising tobacco prices—this is about the Government balancing the budget on the backs of a minority. And by calling this tax increase a fee, lawmakers aren’t even being honest about what they are doing.
“Tobacco users are paying over $2 a pack to the government now—paying the freight while simultaneously being hit with new smoking bans and other measures to curb their freedoms. This campaign is about fairness, fighting for the liberty of minorities, and just plain honest governance. We hope to deliver 10,000 or more postcards to the capitol in the coming weeks,” said David Strom, President of the Taxpayers League of Minnesota.
“We hope to expand this program to every retailer in the state,” Strom concluded.
The Taxpayers League is Minnesota’s largest taxpayers advocacy organization. We lobby for lower taxes, more responsive and less intrusive government, and for the freedoms dear to all Americans.
Posted by TameThaTane on Oct. 03 2005,3:37 am
Why do you fight so hard for hard legal drugs, yet fight against cannabis which we know is much less addictive and harmful? It just don't make no sense.
Posted by Botto 82 on Oct. 03 2005,5:43 am
How come that new Burger King "Meat-normous Omlette Sandwich" doesn't come with a health-impact fee?For that matter, how about spray-cheez? Bacon? Deep-fried chicken nuggets?
There's a Mexican restaurant in Austin that actually cooks stuff in lard. Where's Big Gummint? You know people are going to start dropping dead any minute now from all this unhealthy food. These sedentary future-Rascal-scooter-operating bloats have bigger health problems than some secondhand cigarette smoke. Worrying about secondhand smoke is like worrying about being eaten by your housecat.
Posted by Scurvy Dog on Oct. 03 2005,6:05 am
I haven't tried that new Meatnormous sandwich, but it has a great name. Sounds about as healthy as a deep-fried salt lick on a stick with sausage gravy.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 03 2005,8:31 am
| Quote (Botto 82 @ Oct. 03 2005,1:56am) |
| Repoman, you have all the appeal of a wad of used toilet paper. Go back to your Beavis and Butthead reruns and porn downloads. I'm sure you could tidy up mom's basement while you're down there. |
You there, with the gay avatar: Who crapped in your oatmeal this morning?
Lighten up, already. It's the frigging IN-TER-NET!
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 03 2005,8:37 am
You can always tell when a smoker gets a hair up his rear end...Bozo 82 once sent me a private message wanting to be inolved in something that I am involved in - but I figure he can do it himself if he really has the motivation - or motivate others to work with him to help feed the homeless...
I was sparring with George back then as well...
but ever since I took George on in the smoking thread he has gone down the road of baseless claims of pornography and other garbage...
too bad, Bozo - you're ill prepared for any back and forth with me...
the facts just aren't on your side...
you and your fellow weak minded buddy can do your karoke thing together and blow smoke down each other's throats (and where ever else you and George want to blow each other) - while I sit here and read your obituary some day...
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 03 2005,8:41 am
This thread is putting posts in out of order...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 03 2005,9:09 am
| Quote (TameThaTane @ Oct. 03 2005,3:37am) |
| Why do you fight so hard for hard legal drugs, yet fight against cannabis which we know is much less addictive and harmful? It just don't make no sense. |
I don't smoke Pot.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 03 2005,9:25 am
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Oct. 02 2005,11:14pm) |
| source it - post a link to back your trash... |
I don't spread my legs to you. Told you sources are on each post. Back off and back up.
Posted by Botto 82 on Oct. 03 2005,1:45 pm
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Oct. 03 2005,8:31am) |
| Lighten up, already. It's the frigging IN-TER-NET! |
Okay, all right. Back to the topic.
I really don't have a problem with the smoking bans for restaurants. I can certainly go without a smoke for a couple of hours. Anybody complaining about a restaurant smoking ban needs to rethink the whole chain-smoking aspect of their life.
But bars? Surely you've eyeballed the happy hour crowd at Eddie's. This place is a big part of these peoples' lives. If they wanna smoke, I say let 'em.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 03 2005,5:44 pm
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Sep. 30 2005,6:03pm) |
| That is 26 Bars That has closed in Minneapolis. Since the Banned was enacted. 2700 people lost jobs. |
This garbage is not from any article - dumby...
you pulled those figures out of your rear end - exactly where your head usually is...
don't talk about spreading your legs either you George Jones wannabe...
you made a bull crap claim and I told you to back it up - you can't because it's a lie...
I'm not surprised tho - you're such a drunk you probably can't find your ass with both hands and a flashlight - why the hell would I think you could find a source for your bullshit...
Posted by Botto 82 on Oct. 03 2005,9:35 pm
Creep-O-Man's commentary is exactly the sort of hypocricy that I've come to expect from people involved with the church.Do you dole out your anti-drunk spiel when you're dishing out the soup at the shelter, too?
If you're trying to earn credit in Heaven
, I've got news: It's not working.
Posted by MADDOG on Oct. 04 2005,7:33 am
Way cool dr bombay, good to hear you.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 04 2005,8:13 am
| Quote (Botto 82 @ Oct. 03 2005,9:35pm) |
| REPOMAN'S commentary is exactly the sort of hypocricy that I've come to expect from people involved with the church. Do you dole out your anti-drunk spiel when you're dishing out the soup at the shelter, too? If you're trying to earn credit in Heaven , I've got news: It's not working. |
I don't pretend to be anything...
nobody ever said that just because someone goes to church that they have to be perfect - I'm far from it and down try to pretend otherwise...
helping homeless people isn't something that I do for credit from the creator - it's something that I don't do enough of - but it's for people who have either been dealt a bad hand in life or who have made poor choices...
just because I attend church - I don't lay any claims to being "Holier than thou" - I'm not in a leadership position at all - I know that I have pleanty of areas in my life that God will hold me accountable for on judgement day...
perhaps even unkind things that I've posted on the IN-TER-NET...
would psople in the church I attend be disappointed in me for some of the posts that I have put up here - absolutely - I don't make my daily choices wondering what others will think of me...
none-the-less - George still hasn't sourced his BS that I've called him on - and I'm asking him to do it now so many times so that I draw attention to his vast distorion campaign...
you may not be able to see it with the cloud of your own freshly exhaled second hand smoke hanging in your face and eyes...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 04 2005,10:20 am
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Oct. 04 2005,8:13am) | ||
I don't pretend to be anything... nobody ever said that just because someone goes to church that they have to be perfect - I'm far from it and down try to pretend otherwise... helping homeless people isn't something that I do for credit from the creator - it's something that I don't do enough of - but it's for people who have either been dealt a bad hand in life or who have made poor choices... just because I attend church - I don't lay any claims to being "Holier than thou" - I'm not in a leadership position at all - I know that I have pleanty of areas in my life that God will hold me accountable for on judgement day... perhaps even unkind things that I've posted on the IN-TER-NET... would psople in the church I attend be disappointed in me for some of the posts that I have put up here - absolutely - I don't make my daily choices wondering what others will think of me... none-the-less - George still hasn't sourced his BS that I've called him on - and I'm asking him to do it now so many times so that I draw attention to his vast distorion campaign... you may not be able to see it with the cloud of your own freshly exhaled second hand smoke hanging in your face and eyes... |
Look reep o poo go back to page 14 and read forward on this thread my sources are posted. Just as I thought you never took time to really read any of the post. You are a one hundred per cent convince and nothing is going be worth you reading or listening to just like all the rest of the
IMMMMM GOING TO SAVE THE WORLD CRUSADERS
HELP HELP
Look its the capped crusader.
BAM POW WOW
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 04 2005,10:33 am
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Sep. 30 2005,6:03pm) |
| That is 26 Bars That has closed in Minneapolis. Since the Banned was enacted. 2700 people lost jobs. |
This post is from page 31 and I've been asking you to source it for several days now and you keep pretending that you have...
you know damn good and well that you made up the numbers in this post...
acknowledge it Marlboro Man - you can lay back down in your army cot and smoke another cigarette until you feel better - but quit skirting the truth of the issue...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 04 2005,10:57 am
I had made a summary statement on my previous post if you read any of them starting with page 14 and could count and add my summary is valid.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 04 2005,11:01 am
Correction: Porter's, Minnehaha Grill and Margarita Bella closed. Molly Qunn's laid off all employees except for 3 and will be open for only 7 hours per day. Breakaway is still hanging on. (go spend some money at Mathew and Luke's places and tell him to hang on)I am sorry for the confusion, I will continue to keep you posted as the list of closed bars is now at 35.
Sue Jeffers
612-384-4374
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 04 2005,11:31 am
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 04 2005,11:01am) |
| Correction: Porter's, Minnehaha Grill and Margarita Bella closed. Molly Qunn's laid off all employees except for 3 and will be open for only 7 hours per day. Breakaway is still hanging on. (go spend some money at Mathew and Luke's places and tell him to hang on) I am sorry for the confusion, I will continue to keep you posted as the list of closed bars is now at 35. Sue Jeffers 612-384-4374 |
at last - you think bar hound/tobacco hackstress Sue Jeffers is a legitimate source...
I was hoping that you would fess up and acknowledge that all of your crap comes from her...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 04 2005,10:29 pm
Email to me after Sue read the forum.| Quote |
| Wow George, he is a crazy one. So, the source for the 35 closed businesses comes from articles posted in the Tribune, Pioneer Press, City Pages, Sun Newspaper, and owners or staff letters sent to me and to the Minneapolis Hospitality Association. All documented. A great source of information is smokersclubinc.com it lists hundreds of closings including Minnesota. The job losses up to 1000 were self reported losses from the Minneapolis Hospitality Association members, after 1000 we stopped counting. The Minnesota Department of Economic Security numbers are staggering for the hospitality industry. Last May reported lost jobs in our industry of 1400 in just one month. The latest number I heard was 2500. In 6 months. Thanks for standing up for me, I really appreciate it. I have been called a lot worse by these smoke haters, good thing I have thick skin. |
Sue
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 05 2005,12:05 pm
Smoke haters... is that supposed to be a perjorative term...
#1. To me - it really is immaterial how many jobs are lost due to the smoking ban - they'll find other work that doesn't involve poisening people...
#2. Your post says that 26 bars have closed IN MINNEAPOLIS since the ban AND MORE THAN 2700 have lost their jobs - totally implying that all of this has happened in Minneapolis...
if any of those numbers are true - they sure aren't from Minneapolis proper - and there is no way to determine how many of them were going under with or without the ban...
I say good riddance - and you and Sue Jeffers can swap all the second hand smoke you want...
you can invite Bozo 82 over to paint Sue's nails and make sure you have a cold beer in front of you the whole time...
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 05 2005,12:13 pm
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 04 2005,10:29pm) | ||
Email to me after Sue read the forum.
Sue |
Standing up for her...
you never stood up for her...
I like this line from your email with the Smokestress:
| Quote |
| "A great source of information is smokersclubinc.com" |
Are you kidding me - she is thinking that smokersclub.com is a good source of valid information...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 06 2005,12:50 pm
The Minneapolis Hospitality Association put together a two part documentary that runs on cable. There is also a Libertarian show from CA, running too. Both tell the damages from the smoking ban. The Libertarian show was filmed the third week of the ban, the damages are much worse now. October 10, 2005, begins the filming of the new documentary "Devil's Weed" based on the Minneapolis smoking ban. I think it is the same producer and director as Michael Moore Hates America. I have talked to them both and they are excellent! There will be a party at the Maple Grove Tobacco Grove Store on October 18 and 19 from 4-7 PM. More details to follow.
Sue
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 06 2005,3:27 pm
That's an oxy moron if I ever heard one - "damages from a smoking ban"...people that smoke - like anyone else have a finite amount of money...
they can't take it with them to the grave - so if they aren't spending it in bars like Eddie's or the Aragon they'll spend it somewhere...
what's bad for the owner of bars might be good for Direct TV or a bookstore or who knows what...
maybe those workers that are allegedly displaced by the smoking ban can get a job in a different industry...
it's not as though they pissed away a college education learning how to pull a beer out of a cooler and wiping out an ashtray...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 06 2005,3:56 pm
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Oct. 06 2005,3:27pm) |
| That's an oxy moron if I ever heard one - "damages from a smoking ban"... people that smoke - like anyone else have a finite amount of money... they can't take it with them to the grave - so if they aren't spending it in bars like Eddie's or the Aragon they'll spend it somewhere... what's bad for the owner of bars might be good for Direct TV or a bookstore or who knows what... maybe those workers that are allegedly displaced by the smoking ban can get a job in a different industry... it's not as though they pissed away a college education learning how to pull a beer out of a cooler and wiping out an ashtray... |
This post shows how stupid you are and ignorant of a bartenders wages.
Wages made at eddies bar pays for that 120,000 dollar house on top of the hill two newer vehicals. Plus all the other bills.
Posted by Botto 82 on Oct. 06 2005,5:59 pm
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Oct. 06 2005,3:27pm) |
| maybe those workers that are allegedly displaced by the smoking ban can get a job in a different industry... it's not as though they pissed away a college education learning how to pull a beer out of a cooler and wiping out an ashtray... |
I'm sure you're working on your Doctoral Thesis in Property Repossession as we speak, right?
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 06 2005,10:09 pm
| Quote |
| I'm sure you're working on your Doctoral Thesis in Property Repossession as we speak, right? |
funny you should mention it - but in my profession I am referred to as "The Doctor" - because I am an expert...
but let's not stray away from the point I was making - and George helps make for me...
a $120,000 house isn't exactly living high on the hog, George - back when I was a kid that would be a mansion in Shoreland Heights - but these days it's not for crissakes...
a person losing their jobs serving drinks while main-lining 2nd hand smoke is getting screwed out of good health - that's no bargain...
I say any tavern that closes down because it can't deal in the modern world - for whatever the reason - those people will find employment elsewhere...
no doubt about it...
I remember how controversial it was when they stopped allowing smoking on airplanes - all of you inconsiderate smokers maintained that smokers would not be able to handle flying 2 or 3 hours without a cigarette...
you adapted to that and you'll adapt to this as well...
and Sue Jeffers can take her 2nd hand breath and blow it all over your face George...
smokers club.com...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 07 2005,3:55 am
So Repo whicht President is your street named after?
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 07 2005,8:00 am
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 07 2005,3:55am) |
| So Repo whicht President is your street named after? |
Why do you ask...
Posted by Madd Max on Oct. 07 2005,8:15 am
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 06 2005,3:56pm) |
| Wages made at eddies bar pays for that 120,000 dollar house on top of the hill two newer vehicals. Plus all the other bills. |
Well it tells me that there is a drinking problen here then.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 07 2005,1:24 pm
| Quote |
| I say any tavern that closes down because it can't deal in the modern world - for whatever the reason - those people will find employment elsewhere... no doubt about it... |
Here you are forcing your lifestyle on me. Whats next I have to attend your church and worship your God.
KMA
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 07 2005,1:34 pm
| Quote (Madd Max @ Oct. 07 2005,8:15am) | ||
Well it tells me that there is a drinking problen here then. |
We Sell alot of pop and juices as well as liquor we have responsible adults or they lose their keys till the next day. The door revolves all night long with different faces all night long. There are what we called shift changes throughout the night The last shift change is when people leave the clubs and pop in at 1am. If you are noticably intoxicated you will not be served.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 07 2005,3:22 pm
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 07 2005,1:34pm) |
| If you are noticably intoxicated you will not be served. |
yeah...sure you won't...
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 07 2005,3:30 pm
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 07 2005,1:24pm) | ||
Here you are forcing your lifestyle on me. Whats next I have to attend your church and worship your God. KMA |
your stupidity obviously knows no bounds...
we live in a capitalistic society - if a tavern or any other kind of business can't survive in this country with the laws that are in place or put in effect thaen they will go out of business...
but never fear - those employees will find other jobs if they want to work...
it might not be serving booze but perhaps something more noble like repossessing cars...
or in a case like George Gillespie - perhaps washing cars rather than repossessing them...
as for attending my church and worshiping my God - I guess I assume if you attend Church that we worship the same God - unless you are attending some church that is in the distinct minority on this country...
for all I know you may not even attend church - but why do you bring it up...
strange...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 07 2005,4:14 pm
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Oct. 07 2005,3:30pm) | ||||
your stupidity obviously knows no bounds... we live in a capitalistic society - if a tavern or any other kind of business can't survive in this country with the laws that are in place or put in effect thaen they will go out of business... but never fear - those employees will find other jobs if they want to work... it might not be serving booze but perhaps something more noble like repossessing cars... or in a case like George Gillespie - perhaps washing cars rather than repossessing them... as for attending my church and worshiping my God - I guess I assume if you attend Church that we worship the same God - unless you are attending some church that is in the distinct minority on this country... for all I know you may not even attend church - but why do you bring it up... strange... |
Just because you are posting on a albert lea forum I am to assume you are a white. christian. You talk like a communist, threaten like a taliban, and show the intellignce of a third world resident. So I am just as guilty for stereo typing you.
Posted by Madd Max on Oct. 07 2005,5:37 pm
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 07 2005,1:34pm) |
| If you are noticably intoxicated you will not be served. |
I wish all bars would have done that. Maybe a couple of my friwends would still be alive today
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 08 2005,1:23 am
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 07 2005,4:14pm) |
| Just because you are posting on a albert lea forum I am to assume you are a white. christian. |
I wonder if your buddy Red Rocker reads this post the same way that I do...
I am a white Christian - but what if I wasn't white - yet still a Christian...
man - you show your true colors, Mr. Supremecist...
do you guys still wear white sheets at your meetings...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 08 2005,4:30 am
you are so wrong
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 08 2005,10:12 am
My buddy Red Rocker has a higher IQ than you.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 08 2005,1:25 pm
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 08 2005,10:12am) |
| My buddy Red Rocker has a higher IQ than you. |
you couldn't spell cat if I spotted you the c and the a so how would you know what Red Rocker's IQ or my IQ is...
besides - sounds like another Freudian slip that is a window into your brain...
is there some reason why I should be insulted if Red Rocker has a higher IQ than me - does he have a higher IQ than you...
or should I be insulted because he is a minority and you think it's a dig to tell a white person that a non-white person has a higher IQ...
just more hot air from a whino that has sat in Eddie's Bar one too many nights playing the bigshot while Patty has been admiring the other merchandise around town and wondering how she got stuck with you...
tell her I'll be in town next Friday and Saturday night and I might just stop by Eddie's to see if she wants to talk with someone that has common sense about the smoking ban...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 08 2005,1:32 pm
Good luck. Be sure to introduce yourself to her as RepoMan She has a few words she would like to say to your face. I have had a DL and a Truck for 35 years.
Posted by golfer on Oct. 08 2005,1:37 pm
What's with all the bickering? Do we always have to act like children? Just let it go GEO, he's not worth the energy.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 08 2005,1:42 pm
I let it go for over a month and he still insults me so I do it just to let him make more and more of an @$$ of himself it is the only way he can achieve sexual satisfaction since his chemical casteration
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 08 2005,3:07 pm
aw, c'mon, George... I think I would rather see the look on her face if I tell her I am REPOMAN afterwards - ya know what I mean...
just because she isn't a raving beauty doesn't mean she should be stuck with you forever...
tell her from what I hear she has a nice personality - and she gets points for that...
hell, looks aren't everything - with her personality most people probably don't even worry about what she looks like - and that's the way it should be...
Posted by Mamma on Oct. 08 2005,3:14 pm
Good God, he's going to grace the town with himself. Are we worthy? How nice of you REPO to put yourself out this way. I guess you never heard that a man is not measured from head to toe....but measured from the neck up. I think you fail. Why is it necessary to tear someone else down to make yourself look like even a bigger heel?
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 08 2005,3:20 pm
Mama-mia...what are you talking about...
I come to town every now and then...
I won't cause any trouble - you must know that by now...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 08 2005,3:57 pm
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Oct. 08 2005,3:07pm) |
| aw, c'mon, George... I think I would rather see the look on her face if I tell her I am REPOMAN afterwards - ya know what I mean... just because she isn't a raving beauty doesn't mean she should be stuck with you forever... tell her from what I hear she has a nice personality - and she gets points for that... hell, looks aren't everything - with her personality most people probably don't even worry about what she looks like - and that's the way it should be... |
She told me to have the camera ready so the entire forum can see what she does to you for this lame post.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 08 2005,4:03 pm
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 08 2005,3:57pm) |
| She told me to have the camera ready so the entire forum can see what she does to you for this lame post. |
I've got a better idea for that camera...
take pictures of all the people that are smoking to show them how dumb it looks...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 08 2005,4:04 pm
I 've seen Patty Kick Some ass I am going to enjoy watching her kick yours
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 08 2005,7:48 pm
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 08 2005,4:04pm) |
| I 've seen Patty Kick Some ass I am going to enjoy watching her kick yours |
Whose ass have you seen her kick - besides your own...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 08 2005,10:09 pm
She has broken up fights between Good Size Men in Eddies and used choke holds and the bar to the back door to do it. She is x military you won't stand a chance.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 08 2005,10:27 pm
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Oct. 08 2005,7:48pm) | ||
Whose ass have you seen her kick - besides your own... |
BTW didn't your moma teach you that women are deserving of respect and should be admired and not abused. I guess not. You must have gotten beat up by your sisters alot.
Posted by allergic to bogus on Oct. 09 2005,2:28 am
WARNING: You have entered the Junior High Zone.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 09 2005,11:57 am
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 08 2005,10:09pm) |
| She has broken up fights between Good Size Men in Eddies and used choke holds and the bar to the back door to do it. She is x military you won't stand a chance. |
I won't stand a chance...
I'm a lover not a fighter...
who - besides you - has said anything about violence...
what are you thinking about...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 09 2005,12:36 pm
Look What I found In Yahoo Search.........| Quote |
| Mr Double's Erotic Story Site ... my teenage Daughter's nasty internet webcam shows, I formulated ... obsession with sex a result of my being the child of sexual perverts ... by Repoman :... Stuck In A Storm, part 1 ... |
< http://search.yahoo.com/search?....0&x=wrt >Link to page
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 09 2005,12:51 pm
My user name is clean on the net. So repo are you registared as a sex offender and what level.Give a fool enough rope...................
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 09 2005,9:15 pm
only a goof like George Gillespie would do a google search on sexual perversion... have fun reading, George - or weren't there enough pictures for you...
maybe this is the kind of stuff that keeps George from getting government contracts...
Posted by Botto 82 on Oct. 10 2005,2:01 am
| Quote (allergic to bogus @ Oct. 09 2005,2:28am) |
| WARNING: You have entered the Junior High Zone. |
Ya think?
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 10 2005,2:18 am
Ya think Rick DersseR
Posted by Botto 82 on Oct. 10 2005,2:34 am
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 10 2005,2:18am) |
| Ya think Rick DersseR |
Whaa...?
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 10 2005,8:15 am
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 10 2005,2:18am) |
| Ya think Rick DersseR |
Try Drescher, Einstein...
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 10 2005,9:26 am
By the way - does Patty smoke... does she think second hand smoke is dangerous...
hopefully she's a little more on the ball than you are...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 10 2005,1:23 pm
You see once you start threatening the well being of people your IP provider is obligated to identify you dip wad
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 10 2005,2:14 pm
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 10 2005,1:23pm) |
| You see once you start threatening the well being of people your IP provider is obligated to identify you dip wad |
OK "dip wad" - let's take a look at your statement...
#1. I didn't threaten the well being of anyone - that was you that said I was going to get my rear end kicked at Eddie's Bar this weekend...
#2. IF the IP is obligated to ID a perpetrator - I am sure that such identification is provided to the authorities - not some drunk at Eddie's Bar...
#3. I've never heard from the Internet police that you claim are hot on my trail...
#4. You guessed wrong - I'm not Rick Drescher - all I did was correct you on the spelling of his name - not acknowledge that you were right...
#5. Once again George Gillespie is exposed as the FORUM DUNCE...
and that's no small accomplishment with the likes of BozoThaClown posting here...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 10 2005,2:17 pm
Tell it to the Judge jerk. Your inuindos about Patty count as a terrorist threat dumb ass. I suggest you cease you snide comment toward my family Rick
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 10 2005,2:29 pm
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 10 2005,2:17pm) |
| Tell it to the Judge jerk. Your inuindos about Patty count as a terrorist threat dumb ass. I suggest you cease you snide comment toward my family Rick |
I keep trying to give it to you straight...
no matter how much you try to twist it - I haven't threatened you or Patty - or anyone else for that matter...
and I'm not Rick - sorry...
you are dangerous, man...
if I ever did talk to Patty what did you think I was going to say to her...
I was going to chat with her about this smoking issue - that's all - get a grip man...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 10 2005,2:33 pm
I can take copies of the post here and use them to retrieve my incoming phone records and comfirm where that call came from. Homeland Security Act
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 10 2005,2:37 pm
| Quote |
| you are dangerous, man... |
You better Believe it!!!!!!!
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 10 2005,2:50 pm
you are out there space man... I just wonder one thing - don't you think that your friends and fellow booze hounds laugh at you and all of your bluster...
I mean - first of all you're going to be 51 years old next spring - you're fighting years should be well behind you...
second - you're shadow boxing - I'm not Rick - how many times do I have to tell you...
of course you can't acknowledge that because now you've insinuated that my IP has identified me to you as Rick Dresser - and when they did they even misspelled my name...
so now you've painted yourself in a corner - you either have to keep up the charade that an Internet Provider has given you this information that you are about to use for who knows what purpose...
or you have to admit that you are full of crap and everyone will know that most of the rest of the things you say are baseless as well...
George Gillespie - the "Full O'Sheet Guy" from Eddie's Bar...
that's how you'll be known around Albert Lea - Story Tellin' George - the major league bullshit artist from the corner tavern...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 10 2005,2:54 pm
Knowing you all I have to do is wait for my 1 800 bill to come in and I will have your phone number I'll be giving you a call.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 10 2005,2:57 pm
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 10 2005,2:54pm) |
| Knowing you all I have to do is wait for my 1 800 bill to come in and I will have your phone number I'll be giving you a call. |
Chill dude...
if it makes you feel better - I really would have no interest in Patty...
I'm not available - so just take a chill pill...
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 10 2005,3:07 pm
closed circuit to George...I laugh my ass off about you at least once a day if not more...
first and foremost because you think you're such a tough guy...
second because you're such a phoney...
and third - because you are so ridiculously stupid...
tell that to the judge - Bozo...
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 10 2005,4:08 pm
Andy says you are a blowhard...
Posted by gabby05 on Oct. 10 2005,4:35 pm
Who is Andy Durant?
Posted by Botto 82 on Oct. 10 2005,4:41 pm
...or do you mean Andy Durand? The guitarist?
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 10 2005,5:14 pm
Several people have told me things about George... in fact if I was taking a poll on the subject of George Gillespie - the description that comes up most often is: "he's full of himself" and "he's a blowhard"...
wierd is a common adjective as well...
he is totally fixated on the idea that he has to dominate all conversations...
just like the smoking thread...
I remember a few months ago when he made the comment that he had "hijacked this thread" because it was originally intended to be anti-smoking...
what a self-absobed dunce...
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 10 2005,5:16 pm
it is hard to keep still when an ignoramous like George tries to be a know-it-all...
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 10 2005,9:45 pm
OK...it looks like we've gotten carried away again...
I'm being told that Geo and Patty are arguing tonight about how much time he spends on the net...
my bad...
I can't help arguing with the guy - and he just posts some garbage that I have a hard time ignoring...
George - let's just try to keep to the issue of the smoking ban and leave the other garbage out...
you're just getting yourself in trouble going down this road...
truce buddy - but try to stop posting all the inflammatory stuff - huh...
you're just picking a fight you can't win...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 11 2005,2:41 am
You gravvle with the best I ever seen..... George (Tiny } Mercer is an example....Run a Check on goggle...... I was the arresting officer........
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 11 2005,8:13 am
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 11 2005,2:41am) |
| You gravvle with the best I ever seen..... George (Tiny } Mercer is an example....Run a Check on goggle...... I was the arresting officer........ |
George - posting drunk again...
2:41 AM - what a goof...
you should have listened to Patty...
you spell like a poor elementary student - it's grovel not gravvel...
you lie about absolutly everything - you're probably lying about this as well...
the better point is - who in the world cares if you did help arrest George (Tiny) Mercer anyway...
what's the relevance - you are a complete buffoon...
just like yesterday when you tried to lead people into believing that some Internet Provider had told you who I was - when in fact all you were doing was taking a pathetic guess and saying that I was Rick Drescher...
I knew right away why you were guessing that I was Rick - because he does - or used to do - repossessions in the Albert Lea area...
so you come on like you're friggin' Columbo or something and wrongfully (and dishonestly) state that you know that I am Rick - and of course in keeping with your ignorant ways you even misspelled the last name...
everyone is laughing at you George - once again you have proved beyond even a shadow of a doubt that you are truly the FORUM DUNCE...
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 11 2005,8:21 am
you've been exposed yet again, George... now pull up your pants and stop making a fool of yourself...
I am tiring of proving what a goof you are...
last night I was talking to a woman that knows you and she says that you walk around Eddie's like you own the place...
she says you drive more business away from that place than anything else - more than any smoking ban would ever do...
Big shot George - the mole boxing Country Western Karoke King of Eddie's Bar - what a big man...
hurry up, Net Detective - submit my post to my IP...
Posted by Fighting Yeti on Oct. 11 2005,9:28 am
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 11 2005,2:41am) |
| You gravvle with the best I ever seen..... George (Tiny } Mercer is an example....Run a Check on goggle...... I was the arresting officer........ |
How come you're not a police officer anymore, George?
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 11 2005,9:59 am
I did while I worked my way through college Had I stuck with it I would have retired by now.
Posted by gabby05 on Oct. 11 2005,10:18 am
Why didn't you stick with it, George?? That would have been a great career.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 11 2005,10:18 am
| Quote (Fighting Yeti @ Oct. 11 2005,9:28am) | ||
How come you're not a police officer anymore, George? |
Good question...
I once had a guy work for me - I hired him from a trowing company - and one of the things that piqued my interest is that he was a former cop...
he turned out to be a thief...
I talked to another cop friend of mine and he said - always be leary of guys who are police officers for a fairly short period of time...
most guys get into law enforcement for a career - and if they wash out - chances are that they were a bad apple...
especially when they end up going from police work (if he ever really was) to mopping floors and wiping tables at Eddie's Bar...
I mean for crissakes - he tells us that he took down TINY MERCER - hell you could do a google search on TINY for crissakes - I imagine George was on the 'A' list with J Edgar Hoover and Louie Freeh - probably ate at their homes regularily - and now he is a pissant bartender at Eddie's - wha-duh-hell happened to our HERO...
what a friggin' stooge - like I told you before, George - when you were always bragging about being a Veteran (as am I) - you are too full of yourself...
always gotta puff out your chest and brag about all the things you've done - how big and bad you are - how dangerous you are - in actuality, you're a fool - and I join with all those that continue to laugh at you on a daily basis - grovel at that blowhard...
tell me again how I have violated the Homeland Security Act you DUNCE...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 11 2005,10:30 am
Your opinion of me does not matter to me you laugh at me but I talk to people here in town that read your crap their opinion of you is not any higher than your opinion of me, you posted several post yesterday I did not respond to and was not. People call me up and tell me what an ass you are. Excuse me for waking up in the middle of the night to read your crap once again and accusing of you of crying like a baby. I don't work Monday Nights at Eddies so there you go guessing again. I work at Eddies so that Patty and I can spend time together. As an employer wouldn't you want your employees to run your business as though it was their own. That is how a good business makes money. Run off people yes I do the Zoo crowd is not wanted they can stay up town.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 11 2005,11:07 am
In 1978 had it not been fo my GI Bill I couldn't afford to be in law enforcment with a wife and 2 kids, it only paid 680 dolars a month I had more ambitious goals. In 1980 I worked as a Kmart asst. Manager making 1400 a month still going to college. I finished my BA 1982 and went into research.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 11 2005,11:32 am
Man you weave a lot of stories...I know you must be real popular at the zoo...
you probably don't like that place because the guys down there got sick of your act and threw your ass out on the street...
and you probably want to be around Patty more because you're so insecure - I heard about you grilling her one night because you thought she was "looking at" some guy...
Posted by Fighting Yeti on Oct. 11 2005,11:36 am
What type of research did you perform, George?
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 11 2005,11:43 am
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Oct. 10 2005,9:45pm) |
| OK... it looks like we've gotten carried away again... I'm being told that Geo and Patty are arguing tonight about how much time he spends on the net... my bad... I can't help arguing with the guy - and he just posts some garbage that I have a hard time ignoring... George - let's just try to keep to the issue of the smoking ban and leave the other garbage out... you're just getting yourself in trouble going down this road... truce buddy - but try to stop posting all the inflammatory stuff - huh... you're just picking a fight you can't win... |
this is the post that I put up last night that George is using as an example of me groveling and crying...
I wonder what color the sky is in George's world...
do I seem like I'm afraid of you now, blowhard - am I groveling now, blowhard - am I crying now, blowhard...
when I come down there this weekend I'm going to sit at the bar - and I'm going to give you my business card and I'm going to look you in the eyes and tell you that I am REPOMAN and you will bring me a beer (which I will pay for) and you are going to offer to shake my hand - which isn't necessary - but you are going to feel like such a wimp for saying all of this stuff about groveling and crying on your keyboard...
I can't wait until this weekend when George gets to serve me...
and it better be cold...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 11 2005,11:50 am
You don't realize the Business these post bring into Eddies and my store. I should thank you and Pat Fitzgerld thanks you for making me and Eddies Bar the most popular discussion on the Forum. Business couldn't be any better. By the way it will be cold as you notice many of the posters as well as readers come into Eddies and when you hand me your card I will be sure to identify and welcome you to the bar before I sing a song.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 11 2005,11:52 am
Be sure to wear something old cause I don't want you complaining about you clothes smellin like smoke.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 11 2005,12:40 pm
introduce me to one and all - I'll be just fine... I've been to Eddie's before...
it's not the kind of place I like to hang out in - I do consider it to be an absolute hole - maybe better than Duck's Tap - but a hole none-the-less...
one thing though - don't even dream of blowing smoke in my direction...
that wouldn't be polite...
and since I won't be there real long I do have just one request - please don't sing me a song...
I've heard your singing...
Posted by gabby05 on Oct. 11 2005,1:03 pm
Hey, he's big in europe!!!!!!!!
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 11 2005,1:13 pm
In fact I hardly sing there anymore cause the wait is too long and wouldn't dream of dedicating anything to you. I don't have time to smoke when I am working it is too busy. I am not the type of person that would blow smoke in your face not only is it rude it is disgusting. I don't work until after 10 pm so if your not staying long. I am on call status, I am in the store working until Patty needs me. If she doesn't need me I don't go down until 12:30. Yepper I am a real booze hound I drink water most of the night and have 1 or 2 drinks if I am in the mood. Usually after a 16 to 18 hour day I am ready to go home and relax. Log onto the forum on my laptop and read more of this ridiculas thread.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 11 2005,2:33 pm
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 11 2005,1:13pm) |
| In fact I hardly sing there anymore cause the wait is too long and wouldn't dream of dedicating anything to you. I don't have time to smoke when I am working it is too busy. I am not the type of person that would blow smoke in your face not only is it rude it is disgusting. I don't work until after 10 pm so if your not staying long. I am on call status, I am in the store working until Patty needs me. If she doesn't need me I don't go down until 12:30. Yepper I am a real booze hound I drink water most of the night and have 1 or 2 drinks if I am in the mood. Usually after a 16 to 18 hour day I am ready to go home and relax. Log onto the forum on my laptop and read more of this ridiculas thread. |
Well - maybe Patty will be the only one to meet me then, huh...
by the way - I didn't say in my face - I said in my direction - I KNOW you aren't about to blow smoke in my face...
Posted by ALcitizen on Oct. 11 2005,3:31 pm
It's funny, the times I have been in there, I have not seen George do any work, he stands there watching people, while Patty does all the work. And don't worry about the smoke Repoman, they have that fancy spray odor elimianator by the door, that way everything smells like floral smoke.
Posted by nphilbro on Oct. 11 2005,4:26 pm
Is it one of those places that has kind of a mixed funk smell? Maybe something along the lines of a nice blend of urine and curry? I've never been there but I've got all kinds of nice visuals going on in my head. We have a place out here that I can smell half a block away if they prop the door open. I went in there one day after fishing, covered in fish guts and slime and no one appeared to even notice.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 11 2005,4:27 pm
| Quote |
| And don't worry about the smoke Repoman, they have that fancy spray odor elimianator by the door, that way everything smells like floral smoke. |
you mean if I get up real close to George and sniff behind his ears it'll be like Lilacs...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 11 2005,4:31 pm
I thinks my Stetson Aftershave will be the most dominate smell coming off of me.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 11 2005,4:34 pm
| Quote (nphilbro @ Oct. 11 2005,4:26pm) |
| Is it one of those places that has kind of a mixed funk smell? Maybe something along the lines of a nice blend of urine and curry? I've never been there but I've got all kinds of nice visuals going on in my head. We have a place out here that I can smell half a block away if they prop the door open. I went in there one day after fishing, covered in fish guts and slime and no one appeared to even notice. |
Let's put it this way...
if you walked in with fish guts and slime on your clothes some friggin' local dog might lick it off...
it's a neighborhood bar - but it's no "Cheers"...
remember when you were a kid - there was always the Aragon, Harold's, the Cabin Bar and the Zoo...
Eddie's falls short of all of those - I think the only bar in AL that might be seedier than Eddie's hole is Duck's Tap - but I'm not positive - now that they've got George in Eddie's something tells me that Duck's sales are on the climb...
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 11 2005,4:35 pm
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 11 2005,4:31pm) |
| I thinks my Stetson Aftershave will be the most dominate smell coming off of me. |
really...
I'm thinking it's gonna be the piss that will slowly be filling your boot...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 11 2005,4:38 pm
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Oct. 11 2005,4:34pm) | ||
Let's put it this way... if you walked in with fish guts and slime on your clothes some friggin' local dog might lick it off... it's a neighborhood bar - but it's no "Cheers"... remember when you were a kid - there was always the Aragon, Harold's, the Cabin Bar and the Zoo... Eddie's falls short of all of those - I think the only bar in AL that might be seedier than Eddie's hole is Duck's Tap - but I'm not positive - now that they've got George in Eddie's something tells me that Duck's sales are on the climb... |
You haven't been down in a long time have you.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 11 2005,4:45 pm
I hope that last post doesn't get me in trouble with the Department of Homeland Security again... me and those damn terroristic threats - sometimes I just can't help myself...
I sit here posting away and the next thing you know - I've gone and posted another terroristic threat again...
sorry about the remark about you pissin' in your boots, George - I didn't mean to imply that I was going to do anything to you like squeeze the piss out of you or beat the piss out of you - I just mean that my mere presence there might scare the piss out of you...
but you don't have to be scared - one or two beers and I'll be gone - I just figure if I'm in town it wouldn't be proper for me not to stop down to Eddie's and at least say hi...
remember how you wanted me to feel your hot breath on the back of my neck...
in a couple of days you can tell me all about how you know that my name is Rick D - which I can assure you it's not...
tell us again about how some IP provider told you that I was Rick Dresser...
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 11 2005,4:48 pm
| Quote |
| You haven't been down in a long time have you. |
obviously I know that the Cabin has been gone for about 20 years...
but nphilbro has been gone a long time, too...
I was in AL about 6 weeks ago...
Posted by Botto 82 on Oct. 11 2005,6:37 pm
3-methyl-2-hexenoic acid is usually the dominant smell in a small bar, right after the smoke stench, of course.I've seen seedy little dive clubs all my life. Let's just say it's a case of lowered expectations, and leave it at that. This sophomoric dialogue is getting tiresome. One of you can't spell, and one of you obviously has intimacy issues. Speaking respectively, pick up a book once in a while, and get laid - soon!
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 11 2005,8:14 pm
| Quote (Botto 82 @ Oct. 11 2005,6:37pm) |
| One of you can't spell, and one of you obviously has intimacy issues. Speaking respectively, pick up a book once in a while, and get laid - soon! |
I'm married...
what's George's excuse...
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 11 2005,10:16 pm
I've got a deal for George...when I come in to Eddie's - and I show you my ID - if my name isn't Rick or Richard and my last name doesn't start with 'D' - how about you sing "Delta Dawn" for everyone...
this should be easy for you to take me up on since the IP gave you my name...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 11 2005,10:17 pm
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Oct. 11 2005,8:14pm) | ||
I'm married... what's George's excuse... |
Being Married does not automatically entitle you to sex. At least that is what one of my x wives told me. I post as I work excuse me that I don't take the time to proof read this stuff. If I wanted to live in your perfect world I would. I live in my world and you are not an important part of it.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 11 2005,10:37 pm
dude..does everything go over your head...
Posted by Botto 82 on Oct. 11 2005,11:36 pm
Swish!
Posted by menace616 on Oct. 12 2005,2:13 am
Smoking makes you look cool
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 12 2005,3:14 am
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Oct. 08 2005,1:25pm) | ||
you couldn't spell cat if I spotted you the c and the a so how would you know what Red Rocker's IQ or my IQ is... besides - sounds like another Freudian slip that is a window into your brain... is there some reason why I should be insulted if Red Rocker has a higher IQ than me - does he have a higher IQ than you... or should I be insulted because he is a minority and you think it's a dig to tell a white person that a non-white person has a higher IQ... just more hot air from a whino that has sat in Eddie's Bar one too many nights playing the bigshot while Patty has been admiring the other merchandise around town and wondering how she got stuck with you... tell her I'll be in town next Friday and Saturday night and I might just stop by Eddie's to see if she wants to talk with someone that has common sense about the smoking ban... |
Hey does your women know about this thing you got for my woman.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 12 2005,3:17 am
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Oct. 08 2005,3:07pm) |
| aw, c'mon, George... I think I would rather see the look on her face if I tell her I am REPOMAN afterwards - ya know what I mean... just because she isn't a raving beauty doesn't mean she should be stuck with you forever... tell her from what I hear she has a nice personality - and she gets points for that... hell, looks aren't everything - with her personality most people probably don't even worry about what she looks like - and that's the way it should be... |
What about it Mrs. Repo he wants my woman
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 12 2005,3:19 am
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Oct. 08 2005,4:03pm) | ||
I've got a better idea for that camera... take pictures of all the people that are smoking to show them how dumb it looks... |
Yepper Mrs repo he is such a fricken pervert
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 12 2005,3:24 am
read his from from page 37 on then start from page one and go forward.see what a piece of crap he is
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 12 2005,3:32 am
Yes I got up again thinking how to end this battle and my fighting instanct says to attack.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 12 2005,3:39 am
You attacked me and my loved ones you piece of crap..........
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 12 2005,6:48 am
nah...how could I have "a thing" for "your woman"...
I've never even met her...
couple that with the fact that I am happily married - well, let's just say my wife and most everyone on the forum aside from you - certainly knows exactly why I posted that stuff...
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 12 2005,6:54 am
by the way, George... if those posts are that risque and perverted - why don't you turn them into the internet police again...
you got such great results last time...
I mean - didn't you tell us all that they gave you my name and that they assured you that they would be taking action against me...
George "Geok-off" Gillespie - the BOARD BLOWHARD and the BOARD DUNCE...
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 12 2005,7:03 am
sounds like you're a little insecure, George... tell us what you say to Patty when you think she's been looking at another man...
let's face it - this smoking ban is the least of your worries...
anyone that has to puff out their chest all the time and tell everyone how tough they are - that's not a good sign...
the other day you made a big deal of telling us all that you are a "dangerous man"...
is that supposed to scare someone...
I just hope Patty is OK - maybe that's the reason that she won't marry you - you're insecure you have anger issues and a big time inferiority complex...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 12 2005,9:54 am
Come mon ass wipe show this weekend
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 12 2005,9:56 am
I bet your a real popular in kiddie chat rooms
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 12 2005,10:14 am
why would you post on the internet sexual hints toward my woman and make reference to my homes location unless you are a pervert I see you as a pervert and someone that my family needs protected from while your down here doing your contract Repos for Cars and Credit.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 12 2005,10:38 am
so - you're saying you're scared... it's interesting that you're the only poster who has threatened anyone on these boards is you - yet you allege terroristic threats and violations of the Homeland Security Act...
and now you're scared...
c'mon, George - how have I threatened you or your family...
you are such a goof like I said - you are the BOARD DUNCE...
Posted by ICU812 on Oct. 12 2005,10:41 am
Neat little button you guys could use, I think they call it a private message, I even illustrated where to find it.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 12 2005,10:43 am
[quote=GEOKARJO,Oct. 12 2005,3:32am][/quote]| Quote |
| Yes I got up again thinking how to end this battle and my fighting instanct says to attack. |
This post really tells quite the story - your "fighting instinct" tells you to "attack"...
man - until I enlarged it I didn't realize you even misspelled instinct...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 12 2005,10:44 am
I blocked him From PM ing me almost two months ago
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 12 2005,10:46 am
Your the one who post pervertion and attacks on my loved ones. You resorted to school days mentality
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 12 2005,10:47 am
| Quote (ICU812 @ Oct. 12 2005,10:41am) |
| Neat little button you guys could use, I think they call it a private message, I even illustrated where to find it. |
I tried to PM him one time - he even posted it - the PM said we should cool it - he told me to shove it...
I'm just wondering how far I'm supposed to shove - by the looks of it he can't take it if I shove it any further than I already have...
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 12 2005,10:50 am
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 12 2005,10:46am) |
| Your the one who post pervertion and attacks on my loved ones. You resorted to school days mentality |
you've been exposed George...
the Emperor has no clothes...
and that's why you're really mad - because I have exposed you for the BLOWHARD DUNCE
THAT YOU REALLY ARE...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 12 2005,11:03 am
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Oct. 12 2005,10:47am) | ||
I tried to PM him one time - he even posted it - the PM said we should cool it - he told me to shove it... I'm just wondering how far I'm supposed to shove - by the looks of it he can't take it if I shove it any further than I already have... |
I went back to thur the forum and you know I can find that PM you sent I posted so.......
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 12 2005,11:07 am
While I was back there I couldn't help but notice that there used to be quite a bit of participation in this topic but just like every other post you have made and graced us with, you have contribute nothing and grass dies under your feet. You parked your ass here to kill a thread with vital information and I will have to start a new thread to post facts and figures for those who want to know.Yes I see you as a threat and if you want, come down and have your little dig at me do but I wouldn't advise that you hand me your card.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 12 2005,12:15 pm
you're a tough read, man...but please spare us the sanctimonious BS about me killing any thread...
you've done more than your share of tough talking on this and other threads...
BLOWHARD...
Posted by gabby05 on Oct. 12 2005,12:24 pm
Boys, Boys, Can't we just all get along?
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 12 2005,1:00 pm
| Quote |
Group: Members Posts: 242 Joined: Aug. 2003 Posted: Oct. 12 2005,12:44pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ha-ha - it's the cut-n paste hour... Here's a riddle for the readers on the forum... how can you tell when Geok-off cut's and pastes or plagiarizes someone else's article to post here... _ GEOK-OFF Group: Referee Posts: 2955 Joined: Aug. 2003 Posted: Oct. 01 2005,3:36pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Who is responsible for the bi plane flying around town during rendevous with this msg they need reprimended, fired or charged. Edited by GEOK-OFF on Oct. 01 2005,3:37pm |
This contributed nothing.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 12 2005,1:18 pm
that's because you doctored my post - that's not what I posted...I didn't even post it on this thread - rather on the freedoms thread...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 12 2005,1:21 pm
No, I copied and pasted...... I know it is not in that thread. I not going to carry this crap on, any were but here.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 12 2005,1:22 pm
what you did was tie two posts together and edit them to appear as non-sensical as the majority of your posts...below is the first post I put up:
| Quote |
| ha-ha - it's the cut-n paste hour... Here's a riddle for the readers on the forum... how can you tell when Geok-off cut's and pastes or plagiarizes someone else's article to post here... ___ give up... because you can read it... the words are spelled correctly... |
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 12 2005,1:23 pm
and here is the second post I put up...| Quote |
| I guess freedoms are important to Geok-off as long as it's about something that he's smoking... because as the below post illustrates - he's not at all adverse to curtailing the freedom of others - like the freedom of speech... ___ GEOK-OFF Group: Referee Posts: 2955 Joined: Aug. 2003 Posted: Oct. 01 2005,3:36pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Who is responsible for the bi plane flying around town during rendevous with this msg they need reprimended, fired or charged. Edited by GEOK-OFF on Oct. 01 2005,3:37pm |
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 12 2005,1:26 pm
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 12 2005,1:21pm) |
| No, I copied and pasted...... I know it is not in that thread. I not going to carry this crap on, any were but here. |
Exposed again Geok-off...
now in addition to being a blowhard and a dunce you are also a proven LIAR...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 12 2005,1:26 pm
| Quote |
Group: Members Posts: 245 Joined: Aug. 2003 Posted: Oct. 12 2005,12:44pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ha-ha - it's the cut-n paste hour... Here's a riddle for the readers on the forum... how can you tell when Geok-off cut's and pastes or plagiarizes someone else's article to post here... _ GEOK-OFF Group: Referee Posts: 2955 Joined: Aug. 2003 Posted: Oct. 01 2005,3:36pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Who is responsible for the bi plane flying around town during rendevous with this msg they need reprimended, fired or charged. |
Yes just like that. Copy Paste
| Quote |
| what you did was tie two posts together and edit them to appear as non-sensical as the majority of your posts |
Well you wrote it. More of you mindless "lets screw with Geo" cause you have nothing intelligent to offer.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 12 2005,1:30 pm
by the way - are you going to get some sleep tonight... last night you laid awake all night formulating your battle plan...
and the night before you were awake throughout the night thinking about me as well...
between all the drinkin', smokin' and getting no sleep - I'm worried that your immune system is going to weaken and you might be susceptible to catching a cold or something...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 12 2005,1:37 pm
Notice to the forum readers. Those of you who already ignore this thread more power to you. This topic is destroyed but it is going to remain up so Repo has a place to play. Hopefully he is thoughtful enough to not drag our dispute into other areas of the forum.
Posted by Fighting Yeti on Oct. 12 2005,1:38 pm
From foxnews.com:Smoking Linked to Lower IQ, Diminished Thinking
Researchers found long-term cigarette smoking was associated with diminished thinking skills as well as lower IQ among a group of alcoholic and nonalcoholic men.
Previous studies have shown that long-term alcoholism dims thinking skills and eventually lowers IQ, and researchers say 50 percent-80 percent of alcoholics are also smokers.
If the findings of this study are confirmed by others, researchers say they suggest that smoking may account for a portion of the mind-numbing effects normally associated with alcoholism.
[continued]
< http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,172019,00.html >
Thoughts? Opinions?
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 12 2005,1:47 pm
| Quote |
| Thoughts? Opinions? |
This might explain Geok-off's 2nd grade spelling and grammar...
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 12 2005,1:50 pm
I've got to believe when he was taking down Tiny Mercer he was smarter than he has demonstrated on these threads... that is a great article by the way, Yetti...
keep 'em coming - I know it's too late for Geok-off - but maybe some others on the board might take the lead of Irish Eyes and kick the habit - way to go Irish...
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 12 2005,2:00 pm
| Quote |
Previous studies have shown that long-term alcoholism dims thinking skills and eventually lowers IQ, and researchers say 50 percent-80 percent of alcoholics are also smokers. |
When I go into Eddie's this weekend - if I were to bring a Yahtzee game and roll all 5 dice the sum total of the di would most likely exceed the total IQ score of all the patrons in the joint before I get there...
Posted by Botto 82 on Oct. 12 2005,3:18 pm
This whole thread has degraded into one big idiot parade.A good friend of mine maintains: "You will never elevate other people to your level; they will always suck you down to theirs."
From this limited vantage point, however, it's impossible to see who's doing the sucking...
Posted by red rocker on Oct. 12 2005,3:43 pm
Hey Repo, I go to Eddie's for a beer and I my IQ is not below 36. Does this put me in the minority catagory once again? As long as I am here, my opinion on the subject is that if you go into a bar knowing that smoking is allowed, that is your choice. Deal with it. There are places that smoking is not allowed so go to them and quit bitching. Everyone has a choice.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 12 2005,4:46 pm
Red...first of all 5 x 6 = 30 not 36...
second - I was being somewhat sarcastic - and at the same time piggybacking on the article that Yetti posted...
I know that smoking is allowed in bars like Eddie's - but I have taken the position of supporting the smoking bans that have been enacted in other localities around the country - and I would support a smoking ban in AL or any other place that would be interested in enacting one...
my problem with Geok-off is that he posts lies and has just been a general BS artist on the topic - even going so far as to "Hi-Jack the thread" as he puts it...
he has become the thought police - pouncing on people that are pro-smoking ban...
on another subject how did it make you feel when he told me that even Red Rocker has a higher IQ than you...
the insinuation is that you having a higher IQ than me would be a slam - you weren't a part of the posts leading up to that exchange - so logically he must be saying that you have a low IQ - and the slam on me is that mine isn't even as high as yours...
I think he owes you an explanation...
Posted by gabby05 on Oct. 12 2005,4:57 pm
I don't think I have a low IQ but can i come to Eduardos this weekend?? All this cat fighting makes me wanna see the outcome of this.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 12 2005,5:20 pm
| Quote (gabby05 @ Oct. 12 2005,4:57pm) |
| I don't think I have a low IQ but can i come to Eduardos this weekend?? All this cat fighting makes me wanna see the outcome of this. |
Something tells me that Geok-off is going to have a restraining order seved on me via email...
I can understand you wanting to go - hell he's up all hours of the night formulating his "plan of attack"...
Eddie's will probably do a little extra business tha night based on what I'm hearing...
not much though - I don't plan on staying long...
I'm going down for a wedding - I imagine Geok-off will try to bring a bunch of buddies with him to try to keep his back bone straight (you know - he's supposed to be a big tough guy - but he needs all the help he can get just to serve me a beer)...
this was meant to be a debate on a smoking ban - which I am in favor of in all public places - and George has decided he is the thought police...
you do know that he arrested the notorius Tiny Mercer, right..
what the hell did he bring that up for...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 12 2005,6:12 pm
Internet Bullie Or What, I bet you kick dogs, too.
Posted by Wareagle11B on Oct. 12 2005,6:42 pm
Repo you need to let it go as does Geo. You both should know better than to involve yourselves in internet tit for tat b/s. I really don't care if Geo started it or you did Repo but it is getting a tad OLD to consistently see you 2 going at it over the forum. Repo go down to eddies say Hi to Patty and then just leave. It is as simple as that. Please will you both just knock it off.
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 12 2005,6:59 pm
October 1, 2005Two more closed businesses.
Minnehaha Grill
Margarita Bella
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 12 2005,9:46 pm
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 12 2005,6:59pm) |
| October 1, 2005 Two more closed businesses. Minnehaha Grill Margarita Bella |
2 dives that were going out of business with or without the mind-numbing cigarettes...
two more closed bars - that's great...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 12 2005,11:34 pm
Tobacco industry contests state fee Tobacco lawyers attack cigarette fee
Sep. 29, 2005
PATRICK CONDON
Associated Press
ST. PAUL - Call it a fee or call it a tax - either way, lawyers for the big tobacco companies argued Thursday, the state went back on a 1998 tobacco settlement when it implemented a 75-cent increase in the state charge on a pack of cigarettes.
"Whether it's a fee or a tax, the fact of the matter is the purpose was to reimburse the state for costs the tobacco companies are already reimbursing," said Steve Patton, a lawyer for R.J. Reynolds, who argued for several major tobacco companies during a hearing in Ramsey County District Court.
Gov. Tim Pawlenty, who proposed the so-called "health impact fee," had insisted on that terminology to hold to his own pledge to not support tax increases. Critics and even some allies said it was a tax in disguise, and the big tobacco lawsuit initially looked to turn on that claim - but in court Thursday, both sides said that didn't really matter.
The tobacco company lawyers said it should be overturned because the billions of dollars from the tobacco settlement already pay for state health costs from smoking - something the health impact fee now purports to do as well, though much of the money actually goes to education programs.
The '98 settlement language expressly prohibited future claims on tobacco companies, the tobacco lawyers argued.
"For eight years the state has enjoyed the returns on the tobacco settlement - billions of dollars to cover state health care costs," said Murray Garrick, another tobacco lawyer. "The state in essence, by the health impact fee, is seeking to double-dip."
State lawyers argued that the language in the settlement only prohibited future court claims, not legislative action.
"Had the parties wished to cover state-imposed taxes or fees, they would have said so expressly" in the settlement document, said Brad Delapena, the assistant attorney general who argued the case.
Delapena asked Judge Michael Fetsch to not base his ruling on semantic arguments. "If you re-labeled this an excise tax and didn't say you were going to use it for health care, there would be no argument," he said.
In fact, Patton acknowledged as much - that if the health impact fee had instead been passed as an undedicated excise tax, the tobacco companies probably wouldn't have brought the case.
Karen Janisch, Pawlenty's legal counsel, said to overturn the health impact fee would set a bad precedent.
"This truly is an effort to impinge on the exclusive power granted to the Legislature," Janisch said.
While Pawlenty's office argued alongside attorneys working for Attorney General Mike Hatch, the friction between those two longtime rivals surfaced briefly when Janisch pointed out that the state attorney general, and not the Legislature, had negotiated the '98 settlement.
If Fetsch overturns the fee, Janisch said, "the court would be taking an extraordinary action that in my view would be vastly expanding the powers of the attorney general's office."
Should the tobacco companies prevail, Pawlenty and lawmakers would have to find a way to cover $401 million in expected collections from the tobacco charge. Fetsch gave attorneys a month to submit final filings in the case; it's unclear how much later his ruling would come.
Fetsch did rule on one point Thursday, allowing so-called "non-settling" tobacco companies - small companies that didn't participate in the 1998 deal - to intervene in the case on the side of the state. They support the state since the smaller companies would still have to pay the health impact fee if the court overturns it for the big tobacco companies.
Posted by red rocker on Oct. 13 2005,12:37 pm
My bad Repo, for some reason I thought you used 6 dice. Anyway, I'm out of this one and agree with wareagle. Move on and let it go. You all will forever agree to disagree. Nice comment about kicking dogs GEO. For some sick reason it made me laugh.
Posted by Botto 82 on Oct. 13 2005,1:43 pm
...and cats. I bet he kicks cats, too...
Posted by Expatriate on Oct. 13 2005,1:52 pm
Geo, I know Eddie's was a gold mine back in the Pig House hey-day, can you give us a little history on the bar?Pat F. owned it in the seventies I think he had two daughters Cathy and Patty, are they co-owners now?
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 13 2005,2:09 pm
| Quote (red rocker @ Oct. 13 2005,12:37pm) |
| Nice comment about kicking dogs GEO. For some sick reason it made me laugh. |
It's about time someone laughed at WHAT Geokoff writes instead of HOW he writes...
but I don't kick dogs or cats - I love most animals - allergic to cats though - as much as I like 'em they do make my eyes water pretty bad...
I own two dogs as house pets and we keep two more in the lot to discourage anyone from trespassing...
one is named REPO and one is named BEAR...
maybe Geokoff can run a google search on my dog's names now and try to figure out who I am again...
Posted by Botto 82 on Oct. 13 2005,2:28 pm
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Oct. 13 2005,2:09pm) |
| maybe Geokoff can run a google search on my dog's names now and try to figure out who I am again... |
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 13 2005,2:34 pm
| Quote (Expatriate @ Oct. 13 2005,1:52pm) |
| Geo, I know Eddie's was a gold mine back in the Pig House hey-day, can you give us a little history on the bar? Pat F. owned it in the seventies I think he had two daughters Cathy and Patty, are they co-owners now? |
Cathy and Michele, are his daughters, Pat is alive and still owns the bar. He works from 8:30 am to noon Mon Thru Sat.
Cathy is livng in the cities, Michele in Duluth
Posted by Patty on Oct. 13 2005,2:57 pm
Hi my name is Patty and I seem to be the one Repoman is so interested in posting about although I don't know what I did to deserve him ditzing me so bad. Here is some of the post that I thought was so offensive to me and some I want to thank others for.Repo: says (Patty admiring the other merchandise around town.)
Golfer: (saying he's not worth it.) That one I want to say thank you.
Repo: (I would rather tell her who I am after wards you know what I mean. )
Repo ( Just because she isn't a raving beauty, looks aren't everything. )
Mamma (telling him to quit tearing someone else down. ) Thank You for that one.
Repo (Geo & Patty arguing about time spent on the net.)
Repo (How could I have a thing for your woman, I've never even met her. )
Repo (to Red Rocker, how did it feel when he told me that even Red Rocker has a higher IQ than you.)
I'm not going to go any further than this, although there is a lot more he has said I found offensive I was not going to remark on because I did not want to get in to your childish bull. I would like to know where you have the right to bash me, the place I work or what I do for a living.
I was always told that no job is a bad job as long as you take care of your family and it is honest work.
No I don't have a college education, but I won’t get into that because if I do I'm sure repo would find a way to bash me on that.
He doesn’t even know me but has no problem getting me involved in his little thing.
I have never posted on this forum except for one time when I stood up for the benefit that we put on for a little boy. I always thought that this forum was meant for intelligent conversation but all it is about name-calling.
As far as I'm concern after what Repo has said about me, his mom should but him the corner and make him take a time out. I feel he owes me an apology, and leave me out of your bullshit, as I will never post on this forum again.
Now I know why the tribune dropped this so called forum and why we are not footing the bill for its space after the year is up we donated.
Posted by ALcitizen on Oct. 13 2005,3:08 pm
You tell em Patty
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 13 2005,5:04 pm
Patty...I'm sincerely sorry if some of the things I posted here really offended you - but of the 6 things you say offended you - a couple of them are quite long reaches...
like I say - some I can understand - but how are you offended because Geo tells me that even Red Rocker has a higher IQ than I do...
but keep in mind - as in most cases it takes two to tangle - and in this case - without getting into who started it - Geo has certainly been throwing his share of BS around...
if you're honest you will at least admit that...
as for telling you that I am REPOMAN after we're done talking - I figure we'll never even get started if I tell you up front - am I wrong...
I did say that I was told that you have a very nice personality - I hope you didn't miss that...
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 13 2005,8:17 pm
Patty or Geokoff:You actually found the following quote offensive:
| Quote |
| Repo (How could I have a thing for your woman, I've never even met her. ) |
- wow - you guys are a match made in heaven...
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 14 2005,1:37 pm
Alright...I'm all packed - I'll be in Hooterville soon...
maybe Geokoff can do a Jon Bon Jovi classic in my honor - The Boys Are Back in Town...
Posted by red rocker on Oct. 14 2005,1:48 pm
I believe that GEO made the IQ reference because he knows me and knows that I would not be upset or offended by it which I am not. I'm sure if GEO or Patty have anything to say to me they would say it to my face. Ya know Repo, I take your comments like I take everyone else's, with a grain of salt. But some of the comments , in my opinion, are below the belt and really didn't have to be posted. But this is America and you have the right to post whatever you want. To think, this all got started because we were discussing the smoking ban!!!
Posted by FlyguyAL on Oct. 14 2005,9:34 pm
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Oct. 14 2005,1:37pm) |
| I'm all packed - I'll be in Hooterville soon... |
It seems you made it OK
Posted by gabby05 on Oct. 15 2005,3:30 pm
Okay boys, glad the fighting is done 'cause I just may frequentEduardos' tonight. Girl's night out, you know.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 16 2005,10:47 pm
After my PM's and what I've read on the boards I've come to the conclusion that I was wrong about George... NOT...
Posted by Botto 82 on Oct. 17 2005,12:01 am
Repo, your mindset on smelly old bars reminds me of the chorus in the Goo Goo Dolls song BroadwayBroadway is dark tonight
A little bit weaker than you used to be
Broadway is dark tonight
See the young man sitting
In the old man's bar
Waiting for his turn to die
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 17 2005,5:26 pm
Geokoff...if you're going to go trolling for women there must be bigger hot spots than Eddie's...
once upon a time I just thought of you as a posting adversary on this forum as to the subject of smoking and second hand smoke...
now - I have learned so much more about you - via PM's and just various forum posts - that I am not sure exactly what we are dealing with...
but nothing that anyone else has told me is surprising after reading his own posts - Jennie beware of Geokoff - he is a nut-job...
Posted by snowbird on Oct. 19 2005,1:28 am
Smoke from a handful of crushed leaves and some paper that is mixed with the air of a well ventilated venue is dangerous to your health??If anybody believes that, then I have a bridge I would like to sell them
< http://smokersclubinc.com >
< http://pasan.TheTruthIsALie.com >
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 19 2005,2:02 am
| Quote (snowbird @ Oct. 19 2005,1:28am) |
| Smoke from a handful of crushed leaves and some paper that is mixed with the air of a well ventilated venue is dangerous to your health?? If anybody believes that, then I have a bridge I would like to sell them < http://smokersclubinc.com > < http://pasan.TheTruthIsALie.com > |
Great...
more hot info from SmokersClubInc.com...
that's like having Fidel Castro give us a lecture on
Capitalism...
I know - Geo invited you to this site because he's been getting his ass handed to him on a regular basis...
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 21 2005,2:33 pm
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 10 2005,2:18am) |
| Ya think Rick DersseR |
I didn't want to forget this gem...
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 21 2005,2:34 pm
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 10 2005,1:23pm) |
| You see once you start threatening the well being of people your IP provider is obligated to identify you dip wad |
Part 2 of the proof is in the pudding...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 21 2005,3:15 pm
< Kstp Channel 5 report on Smoking Ban damage >
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 21 2005,5:47 pm
| Quote (GEOKOFF @ Oct. 21 2005,3:15pm) |
| < Kstp Channel 5 report on Smoking Ban damage > |
Like bar owner Matthew Lampheer states in the piece: "The smoking ban isn't the problem - the problem is that there is a smoking ban in Hennepin county but all of the adjoining counties don't have a ban."
Also, Vineeta Sawkar reports that 34 new bar/restaraunts have opened in Hennepin County since the ban...
Posted by GEOKARJO on Oct. 21 2005,6:24 pm
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Oct. 21 2005,5:47pm) |
| Also, Vineeta Sawkar reports that 34 new bar/restaraunts have opened in Hennepin County since the ban... |
Which equals "Zero Growth"
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 22 2005,1:20 am
| Quote (GEOKARJO @ Oct. 21 2005,6:24pm) | ||
Which equals "Zero Growth" |
so - why do you think that it is essential that the bar industry GROW...
there is no reason to believe that we need more bars - but what that report did was explode your myth that the bar industry is dying off in Hennepin County...
better go get Sue Jeffers and Snowbeard to help you out again...
Posted by Botto 82 on Oct. 22 2005,2:31 am
Been to Whiskey Junction lately? It used to be a metro hotspot - a great place to see a band. Now it's a tomb on weekends. I'm sure it'll be some strip-mall development soon.Repo, why do you even give a crap? If people want to go to a smoky old bar, then let 'em, I say. With or without permitted smoking it's obvious you won't be showing up at Eddie's anytime soon.
Have some balls - I'd love to hear you pitch your case to Bob Davis some weekday morning (AM1500, 5-9am, 651-646-8255).
He'd rip your argument to pieces.
We have enough Big Gummint in our lives, for Chrissakes.
Posted by REPOMAN on Oct. 22 2005,9:31 am
| Quote |
Have some balls - I'd love to hear you pitch your case to Bob Davis some weekday morning (AM1500, 5-9am, 651-646-8255). |
I can't even out talk Geokoff and Snowbeard and you want me to take on someone with brains...
Nah - these two are more fun... Geokoff--->
<--- Snowbird-------------------------------------------------------
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Posted by GEOKARJO on Nov. 14 2005,2:46 pm
We need some help folks. The Hennepin County Public Hearing is Tuesday November 15, 2005 from 3 to 9 PM. Please sign up to speak by calling 612-348-3257.If you can not speak at the public hearing please call Hennepin County Commissioner at 612-348-3085 to sell him you support amending the existing ban to make if equal for all. The existing smoking ban has cost thousands of jobs and over 50 closed businesses. Please forward this on.
Thanks,
Sue Jeffers
Posted by Fighting Yeti on Nov. 14 2005,3:21 pm
What does this have to do with Albert Lea/Freeborn County?
Posted by GEOKARJO on Nov. 14 2005,4:38 pm
If we don't watch what is going on around us we will be next to lose the freedom of choice.
Posted by snowbird on Nov. 14 2005,8:18 pm
The objections to 'Crusaders' is not that they try to make us think as they do butt that they try to make us do as they think
Posted by snowbird on Nov. 14 2005,9:55 pm
| Quote (Botto 82 @ Oct. 22 2005,2:31am) |
| Been to Whiskey Junction lately? It used to be a metro hotspot - a great place to see a band. Now it's a tomb on weekends. I'm sure it'll be some strip-mall development soon. Repo, why do you even give a crap? If people want to go to a smoky old bar, then let 'em, I say. With or without permitted smoking it's obvious you won't be showing up at Eddie's anytime soon. Have some balls - I'd love to hear you pitch your case to Bob Davis some weekday morning (AM1500, 5-9am, 651-646-8255). He'd rip your argument to pieces. We have enough Big Gummint in our lives, for Chrissakes. |
Yea Botto
Posted by REPOMAN on Nov. 14 2005,10:49 pm
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Oct. 22 2005,9:31am) | ||
I can't even out talk Geokoff and Snowbeard and you want me to take on someone with brains... Nah - these two are more fun... Geokoff---> <--- Snowbird------------------------------------------------------- -------------------- |
nothing has changed other than the calendar...
Posted by snowbird on Nov. 15 2005,12:23 am
| Quote (REPOMAN @ Nov. 14 2005,10:49pm) | ||||
nothing has changed other than the calendar... |
Welcome to the club Repoman:)
Posted by snowbird on Nov. 15 2005,12:27 am
Don't forget Repo!The compatible non-smokers are watching you like a hawk:)
Posted by REPOMAN on Nov. 15 2005,8:21 am
The dunce club...