Topic: Zionists say we made deal, not Bush
started by: Liberal
Posted by Liberal on Jul. 21 2009,7:14 pm
QUOTE
JERUSALEM – Israel's deputy prime minister said Tuesday the Obama administration's call to freeze West Bank settlement construction undermines past agreements between the U.S. and Israel and damages American credibility.
The comments by Dan Meridor underscored the growing rift between Israel and the U.S. over construction in the settlements. Meridor, a respected veteran of Israeli politics, is considered a moderate voice in the new Israeli government.
President Barack Obama has urged Israel to halt all settlement construction as a confidence-building move to restart stalled peace negotiations.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said he would not build any new settlements, but that construction must be permitted inside existing settlements to accommodate what he calls "natural growth" in their populations. Nearly 500,000 Israelis now live in the West Bank and east Jerusalem — areas captured by Israel in the 1967 Mideast war and claimed by the Palestinians as part of a future independent state.
Israeli officials and former White House official Eliot Abrams have cited a series of written and oral understandings reached with the Bush administration that appear to permit limited settlement construction.
Speaking to foreign reporters, Meridor, who is one of six deputy premiers under Netanyahu, said it was important for these understandings to be honored. Otherwise, it would raise questions about the legitimacy of future agreements, he said.
"We never had an agreement with the previous administration. We had an agreement with America," he added. "The agreement we had with the Americans is binding on us and them ... They should keep to the agreement."
Netanyahu, known for hard-line views toward the Palestinians, recently endorsed the U.S. goal of establishing a Palestinian state alongside Israel as part of a peace deal, though shackled by conditions. However, the Palestinians, encouraged by the firm U.S. stance on settlements, have refused to resume talks until Netanyahu halts settlement construction.
"What is required from Israel is to freeze all settlement activity," Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said in the West Bank Tuesday. "When Israel meets these demands, we will be ready to go to the final negotiations."
The EU issued a statement Tuesday calling on Israel to stop what it termed "provocative" actions in Jerusalem, like demolition of some Palestinian homes. These, "combined with the increase in settlement activity in east Jerusalem, further threaten the chances of peace," the statement said.
Jerusalem city hall has said that the destroyed homes were built without permits.
Meridor hoped the differences over restarting peace talks would soon be bridged.
"In the coming weeks, I think that we will see, I certainly hope so, the resumption of negotiations," he said. He noted that Palestinians conducted three years of negotiations with Netanyahu's predecessor, Ehud Olmert, while settlements expanded.
As he spoke, settlers rampaged in the West Bank for a second day, cutting down some 40 olive trees belonging to Palestinian farmers in the village of Burin, said Mayor Ali Eid. The Israeli military said it received reports of the rampage, but by the time troops arrived, the settlers had fled.
Extremist settlers often vandalize Palestinian property to protest Israel's removal of small, unauthorized outposts in the West Bank — a tactic they call the "price tag."
Of course I don't agree with the scumbag Zionists, but I think it's a good argument that Bush made a deal between the Zionists and American people.
So can the President make a long term decision that future Presidents would be bound by?
Posted by MADDOG on Jul. 21 2009,7:54 pm
QUOTE
Israeli officials and former White House official Eliot Abrams have cited a series of written and oral understandings reached with the Bush administration that appear to permit limited settlement construction.
I guess the question might be more questions. Just who do they mean as "Israeli officials" and I wasn't aware the White House set foriegn policy? I always thought of the president more of a liason. Written and oral understandings? What does that mean? Ask any businessman if they know someone who has reniged on a deal because of an oral agreement?
QUOTE
"We never had an agreement with the previous administration. We had an agreement with America," he added. "The agreement we had with the Americans is binding on us and them ... They should keep to the agreement."
So which is it? Did they have an agreement with the previous administration or the U.S?Personally, I don't understand why more pressure isn't applied to Israel to stop settlment in the West Bank and perhaps eventual withdrawal. Jerusalem, I don't really know.
Posted by hymiebravo on Jul. 21 2009,8:18 pm
1. The president shouldn't be allowed to enter into an agreement soly of his own accord.2. These guys are completely full of crap, if they say they think this and they thought that. Like MD said if it was a real agreement there would be written/signed documentation.
3. Not that even matters; how many different things have been signed over the years in that region, what has been the net result?
4. The U.S. has been involved in signing things and entering into agreements that it hasn't abided by as well. Unless all of those American Indian Tribes just made all that stuff up.
Posted by Grinning_Dragon on Jul. 21 2009,9:14 pm
Wait a minute here, I am sorry but Israel is a sovereign nation and does not need any permission to build. If I was the leader of Israel I would give a big 
to the president of the US and to the UN ,and the EU.I just don't get it, first you guys get all mad if the US sticks its nose into the middle east, but then get mad if the US doesn't intervene with Israel, what gives?
I pray Israel wipes Iran off the face of the earth, and maybe wipe the Palestinians as well.
Posted by Liberal on Jul. 21 2009,10:43 pm
I don't want us involved with the Zionists in any way. I'm not looking to see us throw them out, I want Palestinians given the same amount of weapons as we give the Zionist scum, and then let them work it out. Posted by irisheyes on Jul. 21 2009,11:14 pm
(Grinning_Dragon @ Jul. 21 2009,9:14 pm)
QUOTE
Wait a minute here, I am sorry but Israel is a sovereign nation and does not need any permission to build. If I was the leader of Israel I would give a big to the president of the US and to the UN ,and the EU.
to the president of the US and to the UN ,and the EU.They're partners with us on a number of different things, they may be a sovereign nation, but they're the fattest cattle at the U.S. foreign aid troff. People always complain about foreign aid instead of helping more people at home, well Israel gets a third of our foreign aid budget. More than 10% of their entire military budget is paid for by us. Meaning many of those F-15, F-16, guns, etc. that you see them using were paid for by U.S. taxpayers.
I agree, let Israel make their own bed, but it's time for the U.S. government to give that
right back at them, and let them clean up their own mess.QUOTE
I just don't get it, first you guys get all mad if the US sticks its nose into the middle east, but then get mad if the US doesn't intervene with Israel, what gives?
The problem is we intervene, but it's ALWAYS on the side of Israel. There's a lot of people over there that hate us just because of that.
QUOTE
I pray Israel wipes Iran off the face of the earth, and maybe wipe the Palestinians as well.
I could care less if Israel wipes Iran off the map, but I could care less if Iran wipes Israel off the map either.
Posted by Wareagle11B on Jul. 23 2009,9:51 am
No other country goes through the daily issues that Israel goes through. No other country is surrounded by enemies and has to, every day stay, on the highest level of alert like Israel does. No other country in that region is a bigger source of intelligence or a more reliable ally to this country than Israel. Granted that last statement has been a double edged sword over the years. Could anyone here imagine being someplace like the MoA and having to wonder if a suicide bomber was going to make you or your loved ones the next victim?I'm with GD and IE and what they both said. While I think the military aid should not be stopped entirely it should be cut back and when we cut back that aid to Israel then Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Lebanon, the PA and Egypt should also have any aid they receive from us cut back as well. Let the dictates of Islam take care of those countries that are Islamic. I think Israel should be allowed to do as it sees fit within their sovereign borders and to prevent what they believe to be an imminent threat to their existence. This includes Jerusalem which is, according to history and the Christian bible, the ancestral capital city of Israel. Israel has proven it will take whatever steps are necessary to prevent an attack on it's soil or it's people so it is time to cut the cord and let them do their thing. They will do it with or without our okay anyway.
Posted by Wareagle11B on Jul. 23 2009,11:02 am
I can do the Youtube thing as well. This is as much reality for Israel as those posted by Liberal are reality for the Palestinians. BTW it's a long video over 10 minutes.
Posted by the breeze on Jul. 23 2009,11:29 am
(Wareagle11B @ Jul. 23 2009,9:51 am)
QUOTE
No other country goes through the daily issues that Israel goes through. No other country is surrounded by enemies and has to, every day stay, on the highest level of alert like Israel does. No other country in that region is a bigger source of intelligence or a more reliable ally to this country than Israel. Granted that last statement has been a double edged sword over the years. Could anyone here imagine being someplace like the MoA and having to wonder if a suicide bomber was going to make you or your loved ones the next victim?
I'm with GD and IE and what they both said. While I think the military aid should not be stopped entirely it should be cut back and when we cut back that aid to Israel then Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Lebanon, the PA and Egypt should also have any aid they receive from us cut back as well. Let the dictates of Islam take care of those countries that are Islamic. I think Israel should be allowed to do as it sees fit within their sovereign borders and to prevent what they believe to be an imminent threat to their existence. This includes Jerusalem which is, according to history and the Christian bible, the ancestral capital city of Israel. Israel has proven it will take whatever steps are necessary to prevent an attack on it's soil or it's people so it is time to cut the cord and let them do their thing. They will do it with or without our okay anyway.
I'm with GD and IE and what they both said. While I think the military aid should not be stopped entirely it should be cut back and when we cut back that aid to Israel then Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Lebanon, the PA and Egypt should also have any aid they receive from us cut back as well. Let the dictates of Islam take care of those countries that are Islamic. I think Israel should be allowed to do as it sees fit within their sovereign borders and to prevent what they believe to be an imminent threat to their existence. This includes Jerusalem which is, according to history and the Christian bible, the ancestral capital city of Israel. Israel has proven it will take whatever steps are necessary to prevent an attack on it's soil or it's people so it is time to cut the cord and let them do their thing. They will do it with or without our okay anyway.
Posted by Liberal on Jul. 23 2009,11:36 am
QUOTE
No other country goes through the daily issues that Israel goes through. No other country is surrounded by enemies and has to, every day stay, on the highest level of alert like Israel does.
No other country is squatting on others land.
Let me guess, you think it's okay because they say God promised them the land 4000yrs ago.
Posted by Liberal on Jul. 23 2009,11:41 am
If the Forum's religous kook were to agree with me on any subject, I would rethink my position on that subject.
Posted by Wareagle11B on Jul. 23 2009,12:19 pm
(Liberal @ Jul. 23 2009,11:36 am)
QUOTE
No other country is squatting on others land.
Really Liberal? This is the basis for your argument? If memory, and my history lessons from High School, serve me this country was founded by displacing the Native American Indian tribes from their ancestral home.
In regards to your argument of the Israeli's squatting on others land please lay out the facts. This road has been traveled previously and your arguments fail to stand up in the glaring light of the facts.
From Freedictionary.com
< Definition of Palestine #1 >
Yourdictionary.com
< Definition of Palestine #2 >
I could continue but I would hope you are getting the point by now.
Despite what the Bible may say Historical fact proves that the ancient Israeli's were in this region centuries ago. They came along as did others of that time and conquered this region and thus made it their homeland. They did not leave this land as there has always been a Jewish presence in this region. They were forcefully displaced many times but they always seemed to return to their homeland. This alone provides the basis for their claim to the land they occupy. The Palestinians were never recognized as a country. Palestine was a REGION, much like Southwest Asia is a region. The Palestinians had no form of government that was recognized as such by any modern government of that era. The Palestinians are a tool for the Arab countries of that region and nothing more. Even the leading Arabic scholars of the early 20th century recognized this fact and declared that Palestine was not a country but rather a region connected to southern Syria. The Palestinians did not have, until recent times, any centralized government, monetary system, military or anything else that would identify them as being a country.
The Qur'an even makes mention of the Holy Land as a home for the Israelites:
QUOTE
In the Qur'an, the term الأرض المقدسة (Al-Ard Al-Muqaddasah, English: "Holy Land") is mentioned at least seven times, once when Moses proclaims to the Children of Israel: "O my people! Enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin." (Surah 5:21)
The UN made this issue when they offered to partition the region into 2 separate countries. The Arab countries of the region as well as those people we now refer to as Palestinians exacerbated the situation when they refused this suggestion. Now they want to take back what Israel has rightfully taken. Israel took these areas not through wars started by them but by winning those wars against odds stacked heavily against them.
This has nothing to do with religion or religious kooks Liberal and you know that. Provide FACTS to back up your statement instead of your usual vitriolic BS.
Posted by Spock of Vulcan on Jul. 23 2009,12:24 pm
I believe the jews to be god's chosen people. I think those that stand with them will prosper.Israel does need to decide what they want to do though. They seem to have an internal struggle. Some want to build and expand, some don't etc.
Posted by Wareagle11B on Jul. 23 2009,12:33 pm
Israel's struggles are no different than our own Spock. Here it is Liberal vs Conservative etc etc there it is much the same only the names are different.
Posted by Botto 82 on Jul. 23 2009,1:09 pm
You people are squatting on MY ancestral land. Get the Hell out, and take Pewlenty with you. 
Religion is just another excuse to go on making weapons and war. Who does that really benefit?
Posted by Spock of Vulcan on Jul. 23 2009,1:26 pm
(Wareagle11B @ Jul. 23 2009,12:33 pm)
QUOTE
Israel's struggles are no different than our own Spock. Here it is Liberal vs Conservative etc etc there it is much the same only the names are different.
True, but they practically have to remove some of their settlers at gun point.
They say no more settlements, then they settle, then they expand etc.
If we dropped Israel totally, we wouldn't get anymore respect in the long run from the muslims. they would just see us as weak and stupid. Which we would be, if we did.
Posted by Liberal on Jul. 23 2009,1:37 pm
Hard to dicuss a subject with someone that uses 1500-5000 yr old religous texts as "proof" of anything.It's funny how you religous kooks pick and choose what parts of the Koran you agree with.
Posted by Botto 82 on Jul. 23 2009,1:42 pm
You have to kill a lot of heathens to get into Heaven, you know. Forget all that hippie Sermon on the Mount crap. "Do unto others..." No, that's just to damn hard. Let's have a Crusade, instead. 
Don't you religi-kooks have some gay marriage amendment somewhere to overturn?
Posted by Paul Harvey on Jul. 23 2009,2:17 pm
It's funny how war-eagle claims to be an independent thinker and then regurgitates the typical neocon company lines about Israel. The LAST thing you are is a thinker, let alone a independent one.
Posted by Wareagle11B on Jul. 23 2009,3:26 pm
Of course expecting our rezident Liberal to dispute facts would be too much. How are the 2 links I provided that give the definition of Palestine part of the religious text of the Qur'an? I used the Qur'an as a basis for the fact that even the Islamic religion recognizes the Holy Land for the Jews as the place Moses led them too which, according to history and the bible, is present day Israel. Debate the FACTS Liberal unless in your small convoluted world that is too hard for you. You regurgitate the same old worn out lines and you in no way dispute what is laid out before you. Try that sometime.Willy you as usual have no clue as to what you are talking about. Leave the adult conversations to the adults and go crawl back inside your own little twisted porn watching world.
Botto I am not by any means a religious kook. Once again debate the facts as they are laid out and try to refrain from attacking the messenger.
I forget tho that anyone who debates or defends the fact that Israel has a right to exist or the fact that the Jews are not occupying any land "illegally" is labeled a religious kook.
Posted by Paul Harvey on Jul. 23 2009,3:36 pm
^If I wanted your neocon propaganda, I'd listen to Hannity and Rush. Get over yourself...it's just neocon BS and your a chump to act as enabler for these pukes.
Posted by Liberal on Jul. 23 2009,3:38 pm
QUOTE
even the Islamic religion recognizes the Holy Land for the Jews as the place Moses led them too which, according to history and the bible, is present day Israel.
Followed by
QUOTE
Debate the FACTS Liberal
I can't debate facts when you throw out Sunday school stories written by Jews.
Posted by Wareagle11B on Jul. 23 2009,3:50 pm
(Liberal @ Jul. 23 2009,3:38 pm)
QUOTE
QUOTE
even the Islamic religion recognizes the Holy Land for the Jews as the place Moses led them too which, according to history and the bible, is present day Israel.
Followed by
QUOTE
Debate the FACTS Liberal
I can't debate facts when you throw out Sunday school stories written by Jews.
So you are saying the Qur'an is written by the Jews? I'd love for you to tell a practicing Muslim that little nugget of information.
You completely ignore the facts Liberal. You ignore the fact that Palestine was not a recognized country but a region of the world and still is not even though they are attempting to become a country. Keep picking and choosing your choice in this topic Liberal it does not change the fact that what you state is wrong. Sunday School stories indeed.
Hey Willy how's daddy's farmstead? Is he going to be able to keep it or is your stupidity going to cause him to lose it?
Posted by Wareagle11B on Jul. 23 2009,3:53 pm
(Spock of Vulcan @ Jul. 23 2009,1:26 pm)
QUOTE
True, but they practically have to remove some of their settlers at gun point.
They say no more settlements, then they settle, then they expand etc.
If we dropped Israel totally, we wouldn't get anymore respect in the long run from the muslims. they would just see us as weak and stupid. Which we would be, if we did.
They say no more settlements, then they settle, then they expand etc.
If we dropped Israel totally, we wouldn't get anymore respect in the long run from the muslims. they would just see us as weak and stupid. Which we would be, if we did.
Just like in our own country Spock. We have our own version of those types here.
I agree with your last statement Spock. We could walk away from Israel and never again provide any support for them of any type and the radical's in the Islamic world would still find something new to hate us for.
Posted by Spock of Vulcan on Jul. 23 2009,4:14 pm
The jew and the muslim, were brothers at one time. One turned away from god the other embrassed him.Because of this fact, there will never be peace between the two.
It is the jews lot to have all hate them, but none may defeat them ever again.
Posted by Liberal on Jul. 23 2009,5:26 pm
QUOTE
So you are saying the Qur'an is written by the Jews? I'd love for you to tell a practicing Muslim that little nugget of information.
Not the Koran you republitard, the story of Moses. It's a Sunday school story written by Jews.
QUOTE
You ignore the fact that Palestine was not a recognized country but a region of the world and still is not even though they are attempting to become a country.
I'm not going to prove that again. If you want to read this 5-6 year old thread it makes it pretty clear that Palestine existed, no matter what your Jewish friends tell you.
< http://www.albertlea.com/cgi-bin....;st=20; >
Posted by Wareagle11B on Jul. 23 2009,6:08 pm
(Liberal @ Jul. 23 2009,5:26 pm)
QUOTE
Not the Koran you republitard, the story of Moses. It's a Sunday school story written by Jews.
I'm not going to prove that again. If you want to read this 5-6 year old thread it makes it pretty clear that Palestine existed, no matter what your Jewish friends tell you.
< http://www.albertlea.com/cgi-bin....;st=20; >
I'm not going to prove that again. If you want to read this 5-6 year old thread it makes it pretty clear that Palestine existed, no matter what your Jewish friends tell you.
< http://www.albertlea.com/cgi-bin....;st=20; >
Did you actually READ that portion of the topic where it says that the Qur'an, you know the holy book of the Islamic religion, mentions it. This has nothing to do with the Jews dumba$$ read and comprehend. I'm sorry but there is something definitely wrong with your cognitive reasoning Liberal. You have the information right in front of you and yet you cannot see the forest for the trees.
As for your link. I am not disputing the existence of the PEOPLE now referred to as the Palestinians. What I am disputing is your CLAIM that Palestine was ever a country when in fact it has been proven that it is not. Did you actually follow those 2 links I posted or do I need to find more that will continue to prove your statement wrong? The people now known as the Palestinians are descendants of the nomadic tribes that lived with in that REGION for centuries. Much like the Saudi royal family is descended from nomadic tribes as well. The Middle East is full of nomads who claim no loyalty to any country nor recognize any declared international border. These are the people that the Palestinian people of today are descended from.
Posted by Liberal on Jul. 23 2009,6:18 pm
QUOTE
Did you actually READ that portion of the topic where it says that the Qur'an, you know the holy book of the Islamic religion, mentions it. This has nothing to do with the Jews dumba$$ read and comprehend.
You essentially said that the Koran spoke of Moses. I replied that I didn't believe in Sunday school stories written by Jews.
Now do you think a reasonably intelligent person with the capacity of abstract thought, would think I was calling the Koran a Sunday School story written by Jews, or would it be more likely that I was talking about the story of Moses?
Posted by Wareagle11B on Jul. 23 2009,6:26 pm
(Liberal @ Jul. 23 2009,6:18 pm)
QUOTE
You essentially said that the Koran spoke of Moses. I replied that I didn't believe in Sunday school stories written by Jews.
My quote below:
QUOTE
In the Qur'an, the term الأرض المقدسة (Al-Ard Al-Muqaddasah, English: "Holy Land") is mentioned at least seven times, once when Moses proclaims to the Children of Israel: "O my people! Enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin." (Surah 5:21)
Perhaps you should read the part actually quoted or are you referring to the below quote that I prefaced the above quote with?
QUOTE
The Qur'an even makes mention of the Holy Land as a home for the Israelites:
The Qur'an makes mention many times of Moses and the Jews as well as many other things. Once again you make this a reference to the Jews when in fact it is a quote from Islamic Holy Book the Qur'an.
Have you read the Qur'an Liberal? I have not but I certainly have a copy here I can bring over to you and show you the quoted phrase and the reference to a Holy Land for the Jews as spoken by Moses according to the Prophet Mohammed.
Posted by Liberal on Jul. 23 2009,6:42 pm
QUOTE
The Qur'an makes mention many times of Moses and the Jews as well as many other things. Once again you make this a reference to the Jews when in fact it is a quote from Islamic Holy Book the Qur'an.
The story of Moses was written by Jews. The Koran, and the the New Testament may mention Moses, but it doesn't make it a Muslim story, or a Christian story.
QUOTE
Have you read the Qur'an Liberal? I have not but I certainly have a copy here I can bring over to you and show you the quoted phrase and the reference to a Holy Land for the Jews as spoken by Moses according to the Prophet Mohammed.
I don't care if he mentions it 1000 times, it still won't be a Muslim story.
Posted by Liberal on Jul. 23 2009,6:49 pm
Why is it hard for you to figure out which quote I was talking about? I quoted the exact part of your post...QUOTE
QUOTE
even the Islamic religion recognizes the Holy Land for the Jews as the place Moses led them too which, according to history and the bible, is present day Israel.
Followed by
QUOTE
Debate the FACTS Liberal
I can't debate facts when you throw out Sunday school stories written by Jews.
Posted by Paul Harvey on Jul. 23 2009,7:30 pm
It's hard because he's a very biased, and close minded neocon who needed the military as a young man. It made him...he thinks...and so everything he says and does is based on this. He's about as transparent as a pane of glass and about as smart as one as well. Don't worry about responding wareagle as you're on ignore and I don't get you here...you're banned.
Posted by Wareagle11B on Jul. 23 2009,10:16 pm
^ ^
Posted by Wolfie on Jul. 26 2009,4:24 pm
Liberal-How narrow-minded and anti-Semitic of you......BTW nice brown shirt you have there. Its becoming clearer and clearer.