Topic: Anniversary of Kennedy assassination
started by: Self-Banished
Posted by Self-Banished on Nov. 17 2013,10:56 am
Wow, 50 years since JFK was shot and over those years we've seen movies, heard conspiracy theories, opinions on "who done it" and how would history been affected if Kennedy had lived.So what say you folks?
Posted by Santorini on Nov. 17 2013,11:34 am
How many of you are old enough to remember that day?Where were you when you heard?
Posted by This is my real name on Nov. 17 2013,4:48 pm
I am not sure what to think about "whodunit". Oswald may have acted alone, or perhaps he was indeed a patsy. We may never know.That said, had Kennedy lived, I doubt we'd still be talking about him today. He would have been another past president whose legacy was brought up when called for.
On a similar note, why is it that the only assassinated presidents we mention are Lincoln and Kennedy?
Posted by Glad I Left on Nov. 17 2013,6:04 pm
Not to downgrade their service in office, but McKinley and Garfield didn't really do anything of note that would distinguish them among other presidents.
Posted by irisheyes on Nov. 17 2013,6:57 pm
If he lived, I doubt Lyndon Johnson would ever have become President. Obviously he wouldn't have been sworn in to finish Kennedy's term, but he also won the election against Goldwater by a huge margin in the 1964 election. So if LBJ wasn't in the Oval Office after that election, issues like: Escalation of the Vietnam War (i.e. Gulf of Tonkin resolution), signing of the Civil Rights Act of '64, and "the Great Society" programs could be altered.Secondly, a great deal of the JFK's positive legacy comes from his being assasinated halfway through his first term.
And no, I wasn't old enough. My generation talks about where we were when the OJ verdict was read.
This is my real name:
QUOTE
On a similar note, why is it that the only assassinated presidents we mention are Lincoln and Kennedy?
Exactly! Presidents Garfield and McKinley certainly got a raw deal.
A story now and then wouldn't hurt. Maybe an Oliver Stone movie speculating if Anarchists were really to blame... Was Leon Czolgosz the lone shooter?
Posted by MADDOG on Nov. 18 2013,6:54 am
Perhaps if Kennedy had not been offed, things would surely have been different. Kennedy had a phobia of communism. He was a firm believer in stopping the commies in their tracks in 'Nam by both fortifying the South Vietnamese army and sending in advisors. He never learned history from the French who had no success just as we never learned Afganistan is no place to install peace. Kennedy was partly a war monger in that respect.His foreign policy was no better than Bush in the middle east either. The difference was Bush had support, Kennedy did it anyway including breaking the Geneva Convention rules over it.
In the WH he brought hollywood and shame. WOW, sounds familiar again with another prez. Come to think about it, Kennedy had problems with the War Powers Act too.
Posted by grassman on Nov. 18 2013,7:37 am
One big difference between JFK and Bush is, JFK actually participated in war, and not from a desk..
Posted by MADDOG on Nov. 18 2013,11:51 am
Like I said. He was somewhat of a war monger. The WPA was in part laid out because of him.The Vietnam War was never declared because only Congress has the power to declare war. Kennedy side stepped that. He started a long road of lies to the public about 'Nam.
Civil rights would have still happened although it may have taken a bit longer.
The Great Society and all the social programs may have actually escalated to the point on imploding, and...
Bill Clinton would have been made a saint for only making one intern.
Posted by This is my real name on Nov. 18 2013,12:58 pm
I had read that Kennedy was considering dropping LBJ from the ticket in 1964 in favor of Bobby, with hopes that Bobby would run in 1968 to preserve the Kennedy dynasty. This, of course, assumes an RFK victory.I also read that LBJ called up Bobby after JFK was shot and told him that he was his boss now. More than a little cold to do to someone whose brother was shot, but the Kennedys treated LBJ like garbage all through JFK's presidency.
Posted by Expatriate on Nov. 20 2013,7:53 am
(Santorini @ Nov. 17 2013,11:34 am)
QUOTE
How many of you are old enough to remember that day?
Where were you when you heard?
Where were you when you heard?
I was 13 when Kennedy was assassinated, it was announced at school, it was a somber day many had tears in their eyes.
It seemed like weeks with nothing on the TV but news of the event and the funeral
MADDOG @ Nov. 18 2013,11:51 am
QUOTE
The Vietnam War was never declared because only Congress has the power to declare war. Kennedy side stepped that. He started a long road of lies to the public about 'Nam.
Actually it was Eisenhower who put the first American boots on the ground with the Military Assistance Advisory Group, Vietnam (MAAGV) (officially designated as such in October 1955), it was limited by the Accords to 342 individuals at first but escalated with logistical and other military support long before JFK was elected.
It was Ike’s Domino Theory Doctrine that fueled our involvement in Vietnam, Ike had been supporting the French with military aid until they got their ass kicked at Dien Bien Phu.
Kennedy inherited Eisenhower’s Indochina policy, just like the Bay of Pigs (Cuba) the game was already in play when Eisenhower/Nixon handed Kennedy the ball.
As for the assassination: Oswald’s military records show him qualifying at the range on two occasions, the first time barely making Sharp Shooter, a mediocre shot at best, on the second occasion he qualifies as a Marksman, an even lower grade, the minimum need to qualify.
For those of you unfamiliar with military shooting ranges of the 1950’s 60’s, the targets are stationary they pop up at distances of 50 yards up to 300 yards, the number of targets you hit determines which medal you’re awarded, Marksman (lowest) Sharp Shooter (mediocre) Expert ( you can shoot stationary targets).
Maybe Oswald’s shooting could have improved but he’s now shooting at at moving target with a retrograde rifle??
Posted by Self-Banished on Nov. 20 2013,9:19 am
^ a really, really retrograde piece of sh!t surplus rifle. What was it, 250'? Moving target. Quite a bit of shooting
Posted by Glad I Left on Nov. 20 2013,10:42 am
Any thoughts on the thinking that secret service agent Hickey accidentally shot JFK?Haven't done a lot of research on it but it seems plausible on the surface. Would explain there was a rush to get the body out of Dallas and not in the hands of local coroners."
There were reports of the 2nd and 3rd shots being in close succession, possibly faster than a bolt action rifle could shoot.
Like just about every other theory, lots of question, but few answers...
Posted by Liberal on Nov. 20 2013,10:59 am
Posted by Glad I Left on Nov. 20 2013,11:35 am
I love most of Penn & Teller's BS show. Usually good stuff on there.If the video was in response to my post, Hickey was behind JFK, and thus his head would have moved backward as the video and physics would suggest. That is the only reason I find the Hickey angle compelling. I don't jump into the CIA/MAFIA/Castro conspiracy crap.
Posted by This is my real name on Nov. 20 2013,12:47 pm
(Glad I Left @ Nov. 20 2013,10:42 am)
QUOTE
Any thoughts on the thinking that secret service agent Hickey accidentally shot JFK?
Haven't done a lot of research on it but it seems plausible on the surface. Would explain there was a rush to get the body out of Dallas and not in the hands of local coroners."
There were reports of the 2nd and 3rd shots being in close succession, possibly faster than a bolt action rifle could shoot.
Like just about every other theory, lots of question, but few answers...
Haven't done a lot of research on it but it seems plausible on the surface. Would explain there was a rush to get the body out of Dallas and not in the hands of local coroners."
There were reports of the 2nd and 3rd shots being in close succession, possibly faster than a bolt action rifle could shoot.
Like just about every other theory, lots of question, but few answers...
I haven't read about that one but on that note, didn't it come out a few years ago that it wasn't Sirhan Sirhan's gun that killed RFK, but rather botched return fire from his Secret Service agents?
Even if true, it doesn't absolve Sirhan Sirhan of firing AT Bobby. He still caused his death.
Posted by Common Citizen on Nov. 22 2013,5:15 pm
(Glad I Left @ Nov. 20 2013,10:42 am)
QUOTE
Any thoughts on the thinking that secret service agent Hickey accidentally shot JFK?
Haven't done a lot of research on it but it seems plausible on the surface. Would explain there was a rush to get the body out of Dallas and not in the hands of local coroners."
There were reports of the 2nd and 3rd shots being in close succession, possibly faster than a bolt action rifle could shoot.
Like just about every other theory, lots of question, but few answers...
Haven't done a lot of research on it but it seems plausible on the surface. Would explain there was a rush to get the body out of Dallas and not in the hands of local coroners."
There were reports of the 2nd and 3rd shots being in close succession, possibly faster than a bolt action rifle could shoot.
Like just about every other theory, lots of question, but few answers...
I'm not big on conspiracy theories (unless a lib is at the bottom of it).
I heard this one too and really don't think it's possible. You have two guys standing on each side of the trail car and 4 secret services guys riding inside the convertible. One of them would have had to either shoot through the windshield or stand up and shoot over the wind shield and that would have been witnessed by a lot of people in my opinion. Doesn't seem possible.
I am not sure about the other vehicles in the motorcaid so I am not sure if this is the vehicle this theory is talking about.
I watched Killing Kennedy and that story makes the most sense in my mind...but I'm just dumb conservative who watches Bill O'Reilly on Fox News.
Posted by Glad I Left on Nov. 23 2013,7:29 am
As I said I haven't really looked into it but Hickey was in the trail car directly behind Kennedy so it would have been a behind the head shot. As I hear the theory, after the first shot rang out, hickey went to grab the AR15? off the floor (which was a tight fit) and as he brought it around, the driver stepped on the brakes, the caused Hickey to lean forward and possibly pull the trigger as he swung the rifle around and thus shoot Kennedy.The two initial issues I have with this are
1. Safety would have been on, not that this is sure fire way to prevent a firing..
2. He wouldn't have had his trigger finger inside the trigger guard until ready to fire.
I watched Killing Kennedy as well, very well done. Rob Lowe did a decent job as Kennedy.
Posted by This is my real name on Nov. 23 2013,8:09 am
(Glad I Left @ Nov. 23 2013,7:29 am)
QUOTE
I watched Killing Kennedy as well, very well done. Rob Lowe did a decent job as Kennedy.
I enjoyed it too, but I thought Rob Lowe as Kennedy was a stretch. I wasn't seeing Kennedy, I was seeing Rob Lowe.
The book was fantastic. If they had made this a 3-hour movie, or even a two-part movie, they could have included much more.
Regardless, I agree. It was well done.