Topic: Updated costs for dredging Fountain lake.
started by: Liberal
Posted by Liberal on Sep. 25 2014,5:21 pm
I received this document from a local taxpayer concerned about the ballooning cost of dredging Fountain Lake.Some of the interesting parts are the new cost estimates of $35 million to $44 million. Also it seems that dredge we bought is too small and even with a larger dredge it would take 2 years working 24hrs a day, 6 days a week. We also need to dewater the soil that we dredge and the water treatment plant would cost $10,000,000.
You can read all the gory details here
< http://www.scribd.com/doc/241009665/Dredging-Cost-Fountain-Lake >
Maybe the Tribune can do a story on this information and on that
Posted by Self-Banished on Sep. 25 2014,6:49 pm
Oh the road to hell is paved with good intentions,So who's all gonna get evisorated on this one???
Posted by Liberal on Sep. 25 2014,8:30 pm
How crazy is it that we have to treat/polish the water before returning it to the lake it just came out of?At the rate they're going that $15,000,000 will be eaten up by administration, engineers, consultants, and storage fees before that lake is an inch deeper.
I wonder where the $15,000,000 figure originally came from.
Posted by Self-Banished on Sep. 25 2014,8:48 pm
But if they don't there'll be a global, I mean Albert Lea catastrophe,Sorry, couldn't resist but I also couldn't help seeing a lot of similarities. The wrong people have gotten ahold of this, they might have meant well but but it looks like it might become a fiscal disaster.
Progressives should not be in political office.
Posted by grassman on Sep. 25 2014,11:28 pm
I've polished the water in my aquarium, for a whole lake? 
Posted by Common Citizen on Sep. 26 2014,7:13 am
I don't understand why this is such a complicated task to undertake and execute. They dredge all the time in the Mississippi River without all the monkey business Barr Engineering is proposing.The Mississippi can't be that much cleaner with it flowing through the Twin Cities, multiple towns and farms sitting beside it.
Who is storing the dredge, what are those fees, and what relationship does that person have with the local government?
Posted by Glad I Left on Sep. 26 2014,9:02 am
(Common Citizen @ Sep. 26 2014,7:13 am)
QUOTE
Who is storing the dredge, what are those fees, and what relationship does that person have with the local government?
I can see it now...
"You want answers?"
"I want the TRUTH!"
"YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!"
Posted by Self-Banished on Sep. 26 2014,9:53 am
15 million works out to about $500 a head for everyone in the county.
Posted by MADDOG on Oct. 01 2014,10:57 am
< Call Shannon. >QUOTE
Do you like it that Fountain Lake will finally be dredged, after decades of effort to finally purify one of Freeborn County’s greatest natural resources? Then vote Shannon Savick. She secured it with one two-minute phone call to the governor.
Posted by Liberal on Oct. 01 2014,11:32 am
She got it done in two minutes, how long had republican state reps failed at getting it done?
Posted by MADDOG on Oct. 01 2014,11:55 am
You mean like Dorman? Pfft. I always said he was a democrat hiding behind the republican veil.R-I-N-O
Posted by Liberal on Oct. 01 2014,12:25 pm
What about Murray? What's your excuse for him not getting it done?
Posted by MADDOG on Oct. 01 2014,12:43 pm
I don't need an excuse for Murray, Savick or Dorfman getting it done or for how much. I also don't have to worry about how the cost estimates went from $15 to $35-$44 million.My comment was based on some sillycybin letter writer who thinks Savick can click her heels and say "how great is thy Dredge" for two minutes and change the bonding bill.
Posted by Liberal on Oct. 02 2014,11:24 am
QUOTE
My comment was based on some sillycybin letter writer who thinks Savick can click her heels and say "how great is thy Dredge" for two minutes and change the bonding bill.
Are you suggesting she didn't get the millions of dollars we needed, or do you think it took longer than a two minutes? Are you trying to say that a mushroom wrote a letter to the editor?
Posted by Liberal on Oct. 12 2014,12:38 am
< http://www.albertleatribune.com/2014/10/dredging-wont-go-as-intended/ >Don't worry the Tribune is working on the story even though they couldn't be bothered to attend the meeting.
Posted by ALAngst on Oct. 12 2014,12:26 pm
(Self-Banished @ Sep. 25 2014,8:48 pm)
QUOTE
Progressives should not be in political office.
Take a look at the Shellrock Watershed board of managers. It's hard to find a majority of members you would list as progressives and/or liberals. Seems the members have been more identified as local conservatives.
Speaking of local conservatives. While Shannon Savick got the money, Peggy Bennett has turned around and talked how it was "great" but this really should be done locally. Peggy Bennett wants to make sure the state cuts taxes, reduces spending, etc. especially as it applies to her own district.
Posted by Self-Banished on Oct. 12 2014,2:51 pm
(ALAngst @ Oct. 12 2014,12:26 pm)
QUOTE
(Self-Banished @ Sep. 25 2014,8:48 pm)
QUOTE
Progressives should not be in political office.
Take a look at the Shellrock Watershed board of managers. It's hard to find a majority of members you would list as progressives and/or liberals. Seems the members have been more identified as local conservatives.
Let's see, we've got a micro-managing political types trying to get a glorified mud hole dug out, slap whatever label you want on them they're not conservatives.
Posted by Botto 82 on Oct. 12 2014,3:33 pm
(Liberal @ Oct. 12 2014,12:38 am)
QUOTE
Don't worry the Tribune is working on the story even though they couldn't be bothered to attend the meeting.
Local journalism is dead. Boone newspapers in both Albert Lea and Austin live in fear of saying anything negative regarding local politics.
Posted by ALAngst on Oct. 12 2014,9:33 pm
(Self-Banished @ Oct. 12 2014,2:51 pm)
QUOTE
Let's see, we've got a micro-managing political types trying to get a glorified mud hole dug out, slap whatever label you want on them they're not conservatives.
I certainly don't label any of these managers, or most officeholders as progressives. That would actually be a compliment. Their cronies protecting the status quo, what with their administrative pays and bonuses.
Posted by TheHill on Oct. 12 2014,9:44 pm
I am not sure there is one party to thank or blame. Sounds like we don't have the necessary funding in place. Also, if we simply we needed a democrat to get it done then Robin Brown could have, but I don't think it is that simple and I am not faulting her.
Posted by Liberal on Oct. 13 2014,10:32 am
I was just pointing out how ridiculous maddog's mushroom post was. If the project ends up costing more It certainly wouldn't be Shannon Savick's fault for getting us the amount of funding we asked her to get.Apparently maddog thinks if we would have had a real Republican in that seat they would have gotten us 3 times the amount we asked for and would have done it with a 1 minute phonecall.
Posted by MADDOG on Oct. 13 2014,1:09 pm
My other comment was about a letter writer who stated QUOTE
Do you like it that Fountain Lake will finally be dredged, after decades of effort to finally purify one of Freeborn County’s greatest natural resources? Then vote Shannon Savick. She secured it with one two-minute phone call to the governor.
makes you think that Savick single-handedly got the district the money with the wave of Glinda's wand or..QUOTE
When the men on the chessboard
Get up and tell you where to go
And you've just had some kind of mushroom
And your mind is moving low
Go ask Alice
I think she'll know.
Get up and tell you where to go
And you've just had some kind of mushroom
And your mind is moving low
Go ask Alice
I think she'll know.
Posted by Botto 82 on Oct. 14 2014,9:32 am
(MADDOG @ Oct. 13 2014,1:09 pm)
QUOTE
My other comment was about a letter writer who stated
QUOTE
Do you like it that Fountain Lake will finally be dredged, after decades of effort to finally purify one of Freeborn County’s greatest natural resources? Then vote Shannon Savick. She secured it with one two-minute phone call to the governor.
makes you think that Savick single-handedly got the district the money with the wave of Glinda's wand [...]Why not? The Peggy Bennett radio ads suggest that Savick single-handedly made the decision to fund "...a 90-million dollar office building for politicians," rather than fund projects at home.
Who falls for this tripe, anyway?
Posted by Liberal on Oct. 19 2014,12:47 pm
Well now we know where the dredge is being stored, how about they ask how much the watershed board president's son is charging the taxpayers to store it.QUOTE
Another question raised is whether the district will be able to use the 2010 IMS 7012 HP 51-foot Versi hydraulic dredge it purchased in 2012 for $340,000, along with the pipes, pumping and other equipment necessary to pump the dredge material away from the lake for $435,000. It is stored in a shed owned by Pestorious’ son in Freeborn County.
< http://www.albertleatribune.com/2014/10/watershed-district-responds/ >
Posted by Self-Banished on Oct. 19 2014,1:35 pm
I'm starting to feel sorry for the folks down there.
Posted by nzeroesc on Oct. 19 2014,2:02 pm
From the July 18th SRRWD minutes. Cole Pestorious
Dredge Storage Rent 504 Dredging $ 416.67
Thats monthly according to the June 10th 2014 minutes...
Administrator Behnke gave an update on the following:
• Dredge and pump storage. Per the contract with Cole Pestorious, the lease payment will go into a month by month
payment from this point on. There will now be only a thirty day notice by either party to stop lease agreement.
Almost as bad as the $100 a week they pay to have the office cleaned.
Posted by Liberal on Oct. 19 2014,2:19 pm
Which family member got the $100 a month cleaning job?
Posted by nzeroesc on Oct. 19 2014,2:25 pm
Listed as Samantha Stadheim Cleaning. Which amusingly enough doesn't seem to exist anywhere else but in the minutes of the SRRWD.
Posted by Liberal on Oct. 19 2014,2:41 pm
In case anyone was wondering about the conflict of interest, they voted, and it's not.Manager Erlandson offered the following resolution:
Resolution 2013-14
Shell Rock River Watershed District
Conflict of Interest - Pestorious
Storage of Dredge and Dredging Equipment
WHEREAS, The Shell Rock River Watershed District Board of Managers (“Board of Managers”) purchased the dredge and dredging equipment at auction at from Ritchie Bros. in Owatonna, Minnesota, on September 24, 2012,
WHEREAS, Cole Pestorious owns land and facilities with space available to store the newly purchased dredge and dredging equipment;
WHEREAS, Manager Pestorious, was appointed to the Shell Rock River Watershed District Board of Managers;
WHEREAS, the District is in immediate need of storage space in or near Albert Lea, Minnesota for the newly purchased dredge and dredging equipment;
WHEREAS, the rental storage costs for the purchased dredge and dredging equipment, at a cost of $416.67 a month, does not require competitive bids by law;
WHEREAS, the Board of Managers has determined that the contract price is as low as or lower than the price at which the commodity or service could be obtained elsewhere;
WHEREAS, the Board of Managers has determined that the storage of the dredge and dredging equipment at Cole Pestorious’ site is in the District’s best interests.
NOW THEREFORE, in furtherance of the Shell Rock River Watershed District Watershed Management Plan and after disclosure of potential conflicts of interest, be it hereby Resolved by unanimous vote, Manager Pestorious abstained from voting and recused himself from discussion of this issue, as follows:
Section 1: The District hereby authorizes the District to enter a rental agreement with Cole Pestorious for storage of the dredge and dredging equipment at a price not to exceed $416.67/ month.
Section 2: Before a claim is paid on the rental storage fee, Manager Pestorious must file with the District an affidavit stating:
a.His name and the office held;
b.An itemization of the commodity or services provided;
c.The contract price;
d.The reasonable value;
e.His interest in the contract; and
f.That to the best of his knowledge and belief the contract price is as low as, or lower than, the price at which the commodity or services could be obtained from other sources.
Manager Bakken seconded the resolution.
After discussion, a roll call vote was taken.
Manager Bakken Yes
Manager DeBoer Yes
Manager Pestorious Abstained
Manager Ludtke Yes
Manager Erlandson Yes
Manager Roger Peterson Yes
Manager Clayton Petersen Yes
Resolution was unanimously approved
< http://www.shellrock.org/index.php/library/155-june-11-2013-minutes >
Posted by MADDOG on Oct. 19 2014,7:59 pm
It looks like they are just feeding their young.Clayton used to come on here occasionally. Wonder what he's got to say about this?
Posted by Liberal on Oct. 25 2014,1:38 am
< http://www.albertleatribune.com/2014...in-park >So $15 million isn't enough to dredge? The Tribune should do another story and get some clarification on his earlier statements.
Posted by alcitizens on Oct. 25 2014,9:15 pm
I now know that dredging the lakes is nothing but a money making scam..Tons of chemicals from farmers, along with ton's of tree leaves going down city storm drains every year will always become scum and scam..
I grew up with a dredge at work on Albert Lea Lake in the 60's and it is still a swamp..
Open the dams and send our chit downstream.. Then put up new dams.. So simple..
Posted by alcitizens on Oct. 26 2014,8:54 am
Can we drain the lakes and then bulldoze the crap into piles to be hauled off? Maddog? Liberal?
Posted by Self-Banished on Oct. 26 2014,1:24 pm
(alcitizens @ Oct. 26 2014,8:54 am)
QUOTE
Can we drain the lakes and then bulldoze the crap into piles to be hauled off? Maddog? Liberal?
You could probably drain it, from what I've found out about the lake is that it's only averaging 3.5 ft deep and has 20" of silt. Moving that much material would take an armada of trucks and quite a chunk of time. The run off would go the way of the Shell Rock and would most likely cause a lot of flooding down stream.
It might be a better idea to forget dredging or any other hair-brained idea and drag a boat up north for your aquatic recreation and not mess with that glorified mud hole.
Posted by MADDOG on Oct. 26 2014,2:08 pm
(alcitizens @ Oct. 26 2014,8:54 am)
QUOTE
Can we drain the lakes and then bulldoze the crap into piles to be hauled off? Maddog? Liberal?
Or push it into piles in selected locations to form islands. Don't think that wasn't thought of as one possible scenario. They could also lower Albert Lea Lake to the point where the marshes east of the state park dried up and remove and sell the gravel in that area.
Ask some of the old timers about that area.
Posted by alcitizens on Oct. 26 2014,4:35 pm
Thanks Maddog.. This suck a and blow dredge machine should be called the Pollock machine.. 
Drain the lakes and call in Ulland Brothers and Sorenson Brothers.. One summer and both lakes would be like new..
The new islands created would be great for wildlife..
They complicate things that are so simple.. I would call it Legalized theft..
Posted by Self-Banished on Oct. 26 2014,5:00 pm
Island made from silt??? 
Posted by MADDOG on Oct. 26 2014,7:32 pm
I didn't say either of these two options werebetter or feasible. I was just commenting on your post QUOTE
Can we drain the lakes and then bulldoze the crap into piles to be hauled off? Maddog? Liberal?
I know the island option was at least looked at in the early stages of the SRRWD. Back when Sorenson, Miller and Ken Nelson originated the board. They weren't too much for buddies bad then. 
I still remember back around 2006 at a county board meeting I spoke during the public comments and Ken Nelson called me a malcontent.
You know, years later Ken and I got to be friends. Ken is a hell of a smart man. You know he designed and drafted the best design for a dam at the Shellrock.Note his comment at the 1:26 mark about the county board.
Posted by Pretzel Logic on Oct. 27 2014,11:52 am
I was told that there is not enough drop in elevation in the lake to do the "Drain the Lake". I had thought it was the best idea until that bit of logic was presented.After all the plotting and planning, how can they still not know what is needed?
How could they present an incomplete picture to the state for funding?
How could they make an emergency decision to buy a dredge that was to small to do the job?
The only thing they were really sure of is that they needed to extend The Tax for The Lake.
Those that have been at the trough from the begining need to go.
There seems to be too much money being trickled away.
Posted by Glad I Left on Oct. 27 2014,7:56 pm
(alcitizens @ Oct. 25 2014,9:15 pm)
QUOTE
, along with ton's of tree leaves going down city storm drains every year will always become scum and scam..
I know the Cities of Kato and N. Kato purchased leaf sucking machines for that very reason.
Residents of both towns can rake their leaves to the edge of the yard and the city will come by and suck up all the leaves for "free" (in quotes because we all know there is a small cost added to property taxes to cover this. Turn into compost later that residents can also take for free.
They will do this up until the first significant snow fall. They did the cost analysis on the cost of the machines and manpower to do this for a few weeks each fall, vs what it cost to clean out the sewers and repair work and as I recall it was pretty much a wash if not more in favor of purchasing the equipment. Of course we have a much larger tax base to spread the cost, not sure how economically feasible it would be for good ole AL.
Regarding the drain and truck away the silt, the city of N. Kato did that to Spring Lake Park about 8 years ago. It is a small lake, maybe 2-3 surface acres, they did it over two years working all summer. To do that to a lake the size of AL would be an enormous
Posted by Moparman on Oct. 28 2014,8:18 am
We have a leaf sucker here in good ole AL. Drive by my house quite often.
Posted by MADDOG on Oct. 28 2014,8:32 am
(Moparman @ Oct. 28 2014,8:18 am)
QUOTE
We have a leaf sucker here in good ole AL. Drive by my house quite often.
I guess I've heard him called worst names.
Posted by alcitizens on Oct. 29 2014,3:52 am
(Glad I Left @ Oct. 27 2014,7:56 pm)
QUOTE
Regarding the drain and truck away the silt, the city of N. Kato did that to Spring Lake Park about 8 years ago. It is a small lake, maybe 2-3 surface acres, they did it over two years working all summer. To do that to a lake the size of AL would be an enormous
Ulland's and Sorenson's could finish bulldozing and hauling silt from Fountain Lake in one summer.. Let it fill with winter melt.. Restock the fish.. Done..
I bet Ullands and Sorenson's have engineers that can get the job done..
$44 million can do some serious work.. Somebody needs to be fired..
Posted by Botto 82 on Oct. 29 2014,4:28 am
The lakes in question are not natural. Blow the effin' dams, and clean up the mess. Build new dams.Or does that make too much sense..?
Posted by Liberal on Oct. 29 2014,6:29 am
That didn't work so well with Geneva lake.
Posted by Self-Banished on Oct. 29 2014,9:53 am
Is the lake spring fed? Or does it just fill with runoff? Probably both.
Posted by MADDOG on Oct. 29 2014,11:48 am
(Liberal @ Oct. 29 2014,6:29 am)
QUOTE
That didn't work so well with Geneva lake.
That depends on who's opinion you want.
QUOTE
< Geneva Lake Update >
The water in Geneva Lake was turbid and pea green for years, but now the water is clear and the shallow lake is rejuvenated.
“This project has many stakeholders and after years of discussion and cooperation, we have finally made progress in bringing it back to life,” said Jon Schneider, Ducks Unlimited manager of Minnesota conservation programs. “Geneva Lake is one of the first success stories of our Living Lakes Initiative in southern Minnesota.”
A fixed-crest dam on the lake was causing problems by impounding water and invasive fish that were both very damaging to Geneva Lake. The dam maintained stable, high water levels and allowed carp and other invasive fish to persist and alter the aquatic ecology of the lake, causing it’s water to become very turbid. In 2006, Freeborn County, the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources and DU signed a cooperative agreement to improve management capabilities on the lake. DU then engineered and installed a water control structure and fish barrier on the lake’s outlet.
With the new structures, the Minnesota DNR was able to drawdown the lake and reset the ecological balance of the shallow lake system. A chemical treatment was also applied to remove most invasive carp from the lake. Now, the 1,875 acre Geneva Lake has improved habitat for wildlife and the fish barrier will prevent new carp from reentering the shallow lake. Freeborn County retains ownership of the structures but has granted the DNR authority to manage lake levels again in the future should the lake turn turbid again.
“I’m really looking forward to the improved water level management capability of the new structure on Geneva Lake,” said Jeanine Vorland, DNR area wildlife manager in Owatonna. “Working in partnership with Freeborn County, DU, the Turtle Creek Watershed District and local landowners and stakeholders continues to be a real pleasure.”
Support for the Geneva Lake project was provided by state duck stamp funds, state Environment & Natural Resources Trust Funds granted by the Legislative and Citizens Commission on Minnesota’s Resources through the Habitat Conservation Partnership and a North American Wetlands Conservation Act grant.
DU is also working with private landowners on Geneva Lake to secure conservation easements and promote the USDA’s Wetlands Reserve Program as part of our Living Lakes Initiative.
The water in Geneva Lake was turbid and pea green for years, but now the water is clear and the shallow lake is rejuvenated.
“This project has many stakeholders and after years of discussion and cooperation, we have finally made progress in bringing it back to life,” said Jon Schneider, Ducks Unlimited manager of Minnesota conservation programs. “Geneva Lake is one of the first success stories of our Living Lakes Initiative in southern Minnesota.”
A fixed-crest dam on the lake was causing problems by impounding water and invasive fish that were both very damaging to Geneva Lake. The dam maintained stable, high water levels and allowed carp and other invasive fish to persist and alter the aquatic ecology of the lake, causing it’s water to become very turbid. In 2006, Freeborn County, the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources and DU signed a cooperative agreement to improve management capabilities on the lake. DU then engineered and installed a water control structure and fish barrier on the lake’s outlet.
With the new structures, the Minnesota DNR was able to drawdown the lake and reset the ecological balance of the shallow lake system. A chemical treatment was also applied to remove most invasive carp from the lake. Now, the 1,875 acre Geneva Lake has improved habitat for wildlife and the fish barrier will prevent new carp from reentering the shallow lake. Freeborn County retains ownership of the structures but has granted the DNR authority to manage lake levels again in the future should the lake turn turbid again.
“I’m really looking forward to the improved water level management capability of the new structure on Geneva Lake,” said Jeanine Vorland, DNR area wildlife manager in Owatonna. “Working in partnership with Freeborn County, DU, the Turtle Creek Watershed District and local landowners and stakeholders continues to be a real pleasure.”
Support for the Geneva Lake project was provided by state duck stamp funds, state Environment & Natural Resources Trust Funds granted by the Legislative and Citizens Commission on Minnesota’s Resources through the Habitat Conservation Partnership and a North American Wetlands Conservation Act grant.
DU is also working with private landowners on Geneva Lake to secure conservation easements and promote the USDA’s Wetlands Reserve Program as part of our Living Lakes Initiative.
Posted by Liberal on Oct. 29 2014,10:47 pm
I guess I missed the part that says they drained Geneva lake.
Posted by hymiebravo on Oct. 31 2014,7:32 pm
It does seem like the storyline, concerning the dredge, has been made-up to fit the current situation and justify its purchase.
Posted by Liberal on Oct. 31 2014,8:40 pm
It certainly did sound like a cover story. Don't tell my wife but it sounded like me defending an expensive tool purchase. I sometimes use the "look at all the things I could do with it" defense. I've also used the "It was on sale so I had to buy it" defense. And when I end up not needing something I usually go with "It was a good deal and you never know when I might need it" or "It's worth it even if I only use it a couple times.About the shed storage, isn't a dredge weatherproof considering the plan calls for it to be used 24x6? If it's okay to use it on the lake 24hrs a day 6 days a week for 5 to 7 years, you'd think it was pretty weatherproof.
Posted by nzeroesc on Oct. 31 2014,11:50 pm
I find it slightly amusing that our beautiful lady of the lake Pelican Breeze can sit outside not 100yds from her dock next to the old wastewater treatment plant, but the entirely mechanical workhorse dredge needs to be stored indoors somewhere in the nether regions of the county for safe keeping.